18S Oil Pipes

LoneStar · Post by **LoneStar** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:03 am

Hello,

My 1954 18S has turned out to have a diverse mix of parts from different years. For instance, the carb is a Monobloc from '55 and later, the magneto is an N1 from '53 and earlier and the forks are 1950. Mostly this is not a big problem, but it sometimes causes confusion.

At the moment I'm trying to fit the oil pipes between engine and tank. They were missing when I acquired the bike, so I bought a new set. These seem to be somewhat generic, sold by Russell Motors for "single cylinder" bikes. Anyhow, they're not aimed well at the tank inlet and outlet points:

http://www.vincent-hrd.co.uk/images/18S_oil_lines.jpg

One factor may be that the tank is the earlier style, with the filter tube in the inner half:

http://www.vincent-hrd.co.uk/images/18S_oil_tank.jpg

1954 and later tanks had the filter tube, and its inlet hole, moved to the outer tank half.

The spares lists suggest that a short Z-shaped metal pipe (016357 or 018129) fit into the tank return opening on these, essentially moving it closer to the feed outlet. Naturally, I don't have this part.

I'm thinking the simplest approach will be to shorten the pipes, bend them so they aim more closely towards the connecting points, and deploy the usual rubber tubing to make the connection.

Any thoughts or advice? What's a good way to bend the tubing without kinking or breaking it? It appears to be zinc-plated copper.

Thanks,

Dave

itma · Post by **itma** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:32 am

It is a very dodgy operation to try to bend copper pipe without some practice, they will certainly distort and kink.
It looks like you need the special bottom bolt covered in a topic here some weeks back.
Do not tighten ANY of the unions before they are all connected finger tight, this gives some movement in it all.
My personal preference on these was to have a flexible link anyway, not that they are prone to fracture,
If you really have to bend the pipes, a tiny amount of gentle pressure should be enough, major alteration needs formers, or a filler inside; you should not need to go to that extreme,
Just had another look , they don`t look well shaped BUT!!!!!!! fit the ones to the crankcase first whatever you do, leave the ones on the tank till last, and any final bending needs to be done with the gearbox in.

Biscuit · Post by **Biscuit** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:18 pm

Be very careful when you fit the male thread at the engine end, and install the gearbox before you start manipulating the pipes.

Don Madden · Post by **Don Madden** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:33 pm

Hi, Dave. I have an oil tank in my shed that I was told came off a 1955 G80. I cannot verify the age but we could compare the tanks to see if mine would work out better or if it would help answer your questions.

If interested, send me a PM. Cheers, Don.

LoneStar · Post by **LoneStar** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:21 am

Thanks to all for the ideas and warnings.

I can't say I'm filled with a sunny optimism now on the idea of bending these pipes - but some bending is essential. I'll probably try to minimize it by using a longer section of rubber tubing and shortening the metal pipes accordingly.

Once the engine is in place and the gearbox mounted, I'll give it a try and report back.

Cheers,

Dave

Wavy · Post by **Wavy** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:59 pm

Where can you get oil lines for the 57 single? that are not large on the OD? Awnsers appreciated!

Don Madden · Post by **Don Madden** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:16 pm

Oil pipes for singles is a new hot topic. Needing some for my project bike, I found none available from the usual sources on this side of the pond. JSL does not list them, AMC Classic Spares lists a few types but has been out for some time. They ordered more some time back but have not received any. Andrew Engineering lists some, which match the descriptions listed by AMC CS, so they are likely the manufacturer others list. I have sent email requests twice to Andrew in the last few weeks but never received a reply. Frustrating, so I did some research on them. Ken & others can likely correct or add to my comments.

For post war models, 1946-up, they started with formed ends at each end with gland nuts to fasten to the engine & oil tank, which had theaded attachments. The pipes are 3/8in. & have cone shaped ends which appear to be a British Imperial standard, not used in America, US nor Canada. They are probably not used in Metric countries, either. The ends appear to be formed from the copper tubing, not made separately & attached by soldering, brazing, etc. These early pipes were continuous copper pipes without any rubber hoses used.

In 1949, the part numbers changed but the pipes seem very similar, with the same type attachments.

In 1950, things got complicated. The rigid frame models had new numbers but were still all metal pipe. The sprung frame models got long pipes to the engine, short ones to threaded fittings in the tank & a short rubber connecting hose per Ken's good advice. Competition models were fitted with massive forged footpegs mounted over the bottom frame rails, requiring a different shaped feed pipe to clear. All comp feed lines thence have the cranked shape. These also were long & short with short connecting hoses. If I've counted right, nine different oil pipes were used that year.

In 1951, all models had the two piece metal pipes with threaded ends & connecting rubber.

In 1952 & '53 the spares lists show a single piece oil feed pipe with push-on rubber connector, not threaded connection to the oil tank. The return pipe continued with two piece with threaded connecting to the tank.

For 1954, the threaded connections in the tank were discontinued, both pipes being long with short push on rubber connections to the tank. The feed pipe had a short piece of 1/2in pipe soldered onto the tank end & a matching size 1/2in rubber hose connector.

In 1956, they added the adaptor to 1/2in hose to the return line.

In 1957, they shortened the oil pipes to end between engine & gearbox. Long 1/2in hoses wer used the connect to the tank. This arrangement continued through 1963 except the 1960-up CS with the L/H side oil tank had longer pipes that end behind the gearbox. All pipes & fittings changed with the new Norton oil pump engines in 1964. I have little info on these late engines.

In the North American section, we beat the bushes & found some new-old-stock 1955 oil pipes. A set was sent to "Iron John" Epp in Canada, who plans to make the tooling to form the ends & produce generic pipes that can be bent to fit most models. Iron John is an outstanding engineer & makes many of the parts sold by UK outlets including AMC CS.

So all this means, get any pipes you can find, be wary of using tanks with different attachments, & modify them to fit. Heed Ken's advice about bending them. I use an inexpensive hand tool that is a grooved pully to avoid collapsing the tubing & I silver solder the 1/2in adaptors on. I recommend not turning the cone shaped ends & attaching them at the engine end as the attachment may break.

Pshoow! Cheers, Don.

GOLDSTAR · Post by **GOLDSTAR** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:26 pm

I made the ones fitted to my G80CS by using 10 mm plumbers fittings and rubber hydraulic[thats not spelt correctly is it?] hose, if I want a strange size copper pipe I source it from a touring caravan shop, looks bit agricultural but works fine, kind regards

Wavy · Post by **Wavy** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:33 pm

Thanks for the contributions, I cant´t understand why they didn´t use 3/8 bore?

Peter Lecompte · Post by **Peter Lecompte** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:00 am

Quick question regards oil pipes. 1949 18 and G3L. What are the internal bore sizes required for the oil pipes/hose/tube. 1. Feed to pump from oil tank? 2. Feed to oil tank from pump? The rest of the fittings etc. I should be able to get as they are just BSPT or BSPP? Thanks and cheers. Peter