Throttle slide?

Information relating to the Matchless G85 500cc Heavyweight, AJS 7R, Matchless G45 and Matchless G50
Matchymarty
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Throttle slide?

Post by Matchymarty »

Hi all,

Trying to tune my G80CS, 389 monobloc.
Currently running 260 main, 25 Pilot, 106 Needle Jet, 3 1/2 Throttle Slide, and needle in position 2.

Problem: Flat spot when changing up gears as soon as you let clutch out and try and accelerate.

Bits and bobs done:
1. Checked pilot mixture and all systems ok.
2. Moved needle up and down and 2nd ring from top of needle seems best so far. Top position leans out too much, but flat spot nearly gone.
3. In needle position 2, I removed gauze from bellmouth, and it improved things slightly in acceleration, but only maybe 10-15%.
4. When it 'bogs', if you throttle on, it just bogs more but eventually gets going after coughing a time or two.
4a. If you hold it in the 'bogging' area of the throttle, it will eventually raise revs enough (in say third) to move to a higher rev range and then takes off like a skud missile.

Seems that in 1st, and to a slightly lesser degree, 2nd gear, it revs easily through the flat spot, unless there's a hill involved.

Am I to assume, that a Throttle slide of say, 4 (over my current 3.5) would let more air in, and allow the needle to raise a notch to even out, and probably fix the issue?

Or do I have my wires crossed?

Further info:
1. Seems to pull well with throttle WO.
2. Seems to idle as good as it should.
3. Above 1/2 throttle seems to pull well - unless a hill is involved and flat spot has stopped progression to more open throttle.


Cheers for any help, got a rally coming up and want to get it sorted. :)
Matchymarty
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Matchymarty »

Seems I may have been wrong.

I did a plug chop yesterday afternoon, WOT and at the Flat spot. Plug looks lean to me. I upped the main, to a 270 and it goes like a bullet. Flat spot much improved, though, chasing the best I can, I'll try and raise the needle one notch and see how I go.

Funny I thought it needed more AIR not Fuel.... Black art of jetting....
Will report back.
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Expat
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Expat »

Hey Matchy, blimey, my G3 hw plug colour is a lot lighter than yours. Is the picture of yours after you raised the needle?
If so, maybe I need to raise mine, though lowering the choke slide while blatting along just causes missfiring.

Bike has 210 main, needle in middle groove with air filter, thought that should be ok.
Steve
Keep shiny side up.

These are my principles, if you don’t like them, I have others. (Groucho Marx)
Matchymarty
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Matchymarty »

Expat wrote:Hey Matchy, blimey, my G3 hw plug colour is a lot lighter than yours. Is the picture of yours after you raised the needle?
If so, maybe I need to raise mine, though lowering the choke slide while blatting along just causes missfiring.

Bike has 210 main, needle in middle groove with air filter, thought that should be ok.
Steve
Steve,
The photo is of the plug BEFORE changing to a bigger main or raising the needle. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) this looks too lean for current 95 Octane Unleaded fuel. I would expect to see a 'cool black' colour. I also believe it's too lean, as the header pipe began to gold up, from one ride, indicating too much heat in combustion.

I haven't yet raised the needle and done a new plug chop. Will report back when I have.
Matchymarty
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Matchymarty »

Well, back to square one. I've just played with the slide up and down, and can't get rid of the flat spot, I can only move it.

Strangely, it does not seem to affect it if I cup my hand over the carb, restricting the flow, but not actually blocking it. Curious??

Dropping the needle lessens the flat spot, but causes backfiring and popping.

I think I better get my hands on a slide either side of the one I have and check them, though, I suspect, I will need a bigger cutout??

Any help much appreciated.
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Expat
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Expat »

Wouldn't a bigger cut out flow more air, making the mixture weaker still? Aaah, I see you want to be able to raise the needle a notch to compensate. Interesting to see what happens.

Will check the octane rating of fuel here. I do use use ethanol free all the time, adding an ounce per gallon of fuel treatment liquid 'Seafoam' to extend the life as I don't ride regularly.
Keep shiny side up.

These are my principles, if you don’t like them, I have others. (Groucho Marx)
Matchymarty
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Matchymarty »

Ok,
So, I've ended up with the following and seems to be working great. Good power through the range, and linear delivery.

To counter act the larger throttle slide, I had to increase the Pilot, and decrease the main... ahahaha. Lot of testing and plug chops etc.

Anyways, I started out with : 220 main, 20 pilot, 106 needle jet, and needle in middle position with #3.5 throttle slide on the 389 Amal Monobloc. It wouldn't idle, nor would it accellerate enough to change gears.

Went to: 260 main, 25 pilot, 106 N.J. & needle up and down, but 'best' in second top position with #3.5 slide.

Best results and settling on: 260 main, 30 Pilot, 106 N.J., needle in second top position, #4 slide.

It now runs great, starts easy, and has HP to burn. ahahahah.
Thanks for all help. :)
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GOLDSTAR
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by GOLDSTAR »

my short stroke runs a 420 main, think Bacon states 440 surprised yours is O.K on such a small one, kind regards
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Expat
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by Expat »

Matchy,

Glad to hear you got it sorted.

So reading back through your posts, the only things changed from the original settings are pilot jet and slide cutaway.

Still need to check on octane rating here, any chance of a pic of your plug colour now?

Thanks. Steve
Keep shiny side up.

These are my principles, if you don’t like them, I have others. (Groucho Marx)
bjorn
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Re: Throttle slide?

Post by bjorn »

Some comments on the carb settings:
There is a previous thread on the same issue:

http://www.jampot.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 94#p132866

I have a 1956 G80CS, which is currently fitted with a 932 Concentric and 1960 type piston/head.

When I purchased the bike, in 1969 it had the 1/3/16" 389 Monobloc, 1956 piston/head and SH cams. "Factory" carb settings were: Main jet 440 (open pipe), pilot 30, slide no. 3, needle jet .106, needle position centre. I road-raced it with an open mega (no silencing back then) with a 450 main jet. Used it for road work with a silencer at the same settings except for a 400 main jet. No air cleaner.

The main jet comes into play from about 3/4 to full throttle, so should have little effect at lower throttle openings. The 260 main jet would appear to be on the small side unless you are running very restrictive silencer and air cleaner.

regards
Bjørn
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