66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Information relating to the Matchless G15 or AJS Model 33 750cc twin. This also includes the G15 Mk II and the G15/45
Gerard Harrison
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by Gerard Harrison »

I have plowed through every resource available to me and am coming up confused.

The bike under restoration is a 1966-67 Matchless G15CSR # 113321

Link to photo:
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91 ... g&newest=1

It had undergone many ugly inspirations in its life and I am putting it back to spec (whatever that means with these hybrid beasts)

It is a bona fide Cafe-style CSR with the short rear brake pedal and rear-set foot peg mounting points and swept back pipes.

The rims currently on the bike are 18 inchers...that being said my sketchy spare parts manual lists part # "18350 Rim Only WM2-19 1 All except G15 MarkII, P11, P11A" for the front and same for the rear rim only part

There is also a listing for "M12-2-649 Wheel bare, less fittings" for the G15CSR rear wheel just to make things mysterious

Period literature heralding the arrival of the new G15CSR described the machine as having 19's...other sites list the G15CSR as switching from 18 inch rims to 19's in 1966

But I am willing to bet the rusted 18 inch scrap on the bike now is possibly original based on commensurate level of neglect and deterioration with the rest of the lump

So the question that begs an answer is " Do I go with 18 inch rims or 19's?"...

I fear the answer to this question is "Yes" :-)
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John Donne
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by John Donne »

The early G15CSR's used the 18 inch rims, then the later ones about 1966 used the 19 inch rims. A small point as all the G15CSR's were not cafe racers as a batch of them was made in and dispatched in 1968 as street scramblers. For a really good road test of a perfect G15CSR restoration, get a copy of the September 1982 Classic Bike for the road test of Paul Morins G15CSR. Also try to get a copy of Motorcycle 15 July 1965 as this has the road test of the earlier version of the G15CSR.
Gerard Harrison
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by Gerard Harrison »

Thank you for the response John. I was/am somewhat aware that there were several iterations of the Hybrid CSR...and I suppose all exports were parts-bin specials to some greater or lesser degree as a result of pressures to keep Berliner Motors quiet over here on this side of the Atlantic.

Perhaps I will split the difference and go with a 19 front and an 18 rear :-)

Now I will amuse myself searching this site for torque specs as none of my supporting literature bothers with such annoying details

I have long since outgrown using the "Kentucky Torque Wrench" method of assembly....wherein one will apply an adjustable/crescent wrench to a nut or bolt and push or pull until the wrench slips and the knuckles become horribly skinnedEdited by - Gerard Harrison on 17 Dec 2010 08:01:23 AM
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John Donne
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by John Donne »

As for the G15CSR being a parts bin special, well it had far too many specially made parts to be that sort of bike. The G15CSR was meant for the home market, which was also the same for the G15Mk2's. At that time in the mid 1960's the cafe racer was all the rage, so AMC went for that market with the young street racer in mind,so that they knew that they had a ready market to sell to. Great plan but it sort of never worked out that way. Berliner also sold the Matchless G15CSR as the Norton 750ss and put round Norton badges on it, so your CSR could be a 750ss. For torque settings look in the manual for the Atlas and the 650 models. There is the Haynes manuals as well as the Norton workshop manual and the handbook, as well as the Chilton, Clymer manuals that were printed in the USA. There was also a Clymer manual that was printed that was a copy of the original factory manual, with a cover in blue. There were two version of this published by Clymer. They published some really good manuals. There was a large amount of G15CSR's dispatched to Norton America, and Berliner took a large amount of them. The G15CSR was also raced in production machine races, and one was ridden by Bill Ivy for Tom Kirby. Look in the hs book, No Time to Loose, as there is a picture of him racing that G15CSR. I wonder if it is still around. As for the so called bad handling, that is rubbish. I sat on a new one at the Earls Court show in the 1960's, and saw them for sale new at a dealer called Humphries in the Hampstead Road. I used to go and look at them when i went to Tec School in Euston.
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John Donne
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by John Donne »

The 19 inch front wheel and 18 inch rear wheel was used on all the G15CS and N15CS models. So it would have been 19 inch front wheel with a Dunlop WM2 rim. The rear would have been a 18 inch with a WM3 rim. The CS's would also have one security bolt in the front wheel and two security bolts in the rear wheel, or rim locks for guys in Norton America. Use a ribbed front tyre for the front wheel as they handle much better.
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arsey30
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by arsey30 »

I too looked at the G15CSR at the show [in 1965] but was unable to sit on it as it was roped off and on a raised pedestal.

The special parts were only made and fitted to enable a mix of Norton and Matchless/AJS parts to be fitted, plus rearsets, swept back pipes and the better AMC chaincase.

I seem to remember that the sales blurb from 1965 read-
"We have fitted 18" wheels to reduce the unsprung weight"
Yet in 1966 read "19" wheels are now fitted to improve stability"

I ordered a new G15CSR in Jan 1966, and it was delivered in the March, I only saw 3 in the 2 years I owned mine [20,000m] including the one Peter williams road for Tom Arter at Thruxton.
Mine handled worse than my 1963 G12CSR with factory speed kit, the long roadholders [1950s] were more flexible than the later shorter version.
It was slower than my 650, although the 49bhp was more than the factory quoted 48.5 for the speed kitted 650.
I fitted Dunstall tank, seat, exhausts and GPM 10.5 to 1 pistons, and it really flew, I even went around the TT course [early morning open roads]in 35mins before the start of the 67 senior, but after 3 sets of main bearings later, I gave up.



Gerard Harrison
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by Gerard Harrison »

Good point on the parts bin exemption what with the special parts (from what I am seeing.... that would be the chromed gauge plate, Dunstall type exhaust, chrome lamp bucket and chain guard as well as the special short rear brake pedal and pivot stud mounted on the rear sub-frame plate) ...

yes Berliner did re-badge them as Norton 750SS machines, this one has a G80/P11 pattern scrambles tank on it.... with a massive bondo sculpturing to make it look Harley-esque...that took 2 days with a heat gun and a putty knife to carve off...the tank is in remarkably good shape otherwise and is off with the painter with the rest of the tinware...I am not certain the tank was original to the bike since the only mention I have seen for them on CSR's was for the late "high-rider" versions that made it over here of which I believe there were 50 or so built. So it is either previous owner inspiration or a Berliner inspiration

I need to do a DMV title search against its last license plate (1985) to see what it was registered as...perhaps it was a Berliner Norton 750SS

Thanks for the guidance on manuals, I will start tracking them down. Mike Partridge of Walridge Motors has been helping me sort this one out...and yes I was already settled on going with the Avon Speedmaster ribbed on the front and appropriate companion rubber on the rear

My prior history was with restoring all 3 variants of the P11 which were relatively easy since I had access to a pristine original Ranger to get the engine plates and spacers correctly sized and placed, also rebuilt an Enfield Interceptor (like one I owned in the 1960's) and a Commando SS

After the last P11 project 8 years ago I swore I would never do another ...but then I got a call from a friend who found this sitting in his accountant's basement for the past 25 years and he caught me in a moment of weakness
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John Donne
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by John Donne »

There were 95 G15CSR street scramblers made and dipatched. I bought my own G15CSR street scrambler from Coburn & Hughes in December 1970, and i still own it. If you look on the Jampot web site under Comp machines you will see two pictures of it. It has now been totally restored and it was also featured in Jampot a few months ago. The G15CSR's or cafe racer style bikes should have the larger 3 3/4 or 4 gallon petrol tank fitted as standard. There was a huge amount of G15CSR's exported to Berliner, as i have looked at the dispatch records. The idea for the G15 originally came from the USA. It was from an idea that ZDS Motors, the Bob Blair owned shop came up with. This was explained to me by Steve Zabaro, who actually built the first prtotype P11. Mike does have a large amount of parts for both the P11 and G15 series of machines. It is great to talk to an owner of a G15CSR that bought one from new. I have only ever seen 3 of the last ones made since 1970, so they are very rare, as only 15 of them were ever sold in England and all the rest went for export. The North American market were sent all our best bikes.I saw my first G15CS in 1969 when i worked at Gus Kuhn Motors, and from then on in i was hooked and wanted one really badly. As for handling, the CSR's had a one inch shorter rear shock that the CS models. My own G15CSR handles well, but i used to ride it like a flat tracker.
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arsey30
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by arsey30 »

I bought my new G15CSR from Dave Bryants in Lightwater near Bagshot [£350?] and sold it to Pride and Clarkes 2 years later for £195 just before I got married.
After the photo was taken I fitted clip ons and Dunstall full fairing.

Dave.

[IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh23 ... sr_1-1.jpg[/IMG]
Gerard Harrison
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66-67 G15CSR 18 inch rims or 19's???

Post by Gerard Harrison »

I understand the larger tank was standard on my version of the G15CSR, but finding one in decent shape here stateside will be something of a challenge in terms of scarcity and expense (if/when I do find one) so in the meantime I will go with the scrambles tank

I suppose I could see if Bartel/Lyta could reproduce one when I get the rest of the bike resolved and have fresh reserves I am not certain how common a pattern the 3.5/4 gallon tank was in terms of its use on other models and years.

I do know a bit about the P11's genesis as I did a lot of research at the time I was restoring them...I recall there were 3 different oil tanks used....the filler cap location was altered when they moved from the solo seat version to the P11A and Ranger...then there was the addition of a chain guard and hub covers on the P11A and Ranger...

the solo seat 1967 model was by far the best version in terms of keeping true to the original intent and in terms of being simply the most savage looking of the trio

here's a shot of the one I restored

[IMG]http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee91 ... c00488.jpg[/IMG]
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