Norton N15

[mickm]

There is a Norton N15 on E-bay, Matchles frame? can anyone throw some light on this one for me. As i would like a Matchless G15 for myself. MickM

[mickm]

Just had a look on this site. So I have answered some of my own question. But can anyone help wilt the frame No of 110076. The add says 1964. Is that true? Is it worth bidding on. It is very near to where I live BUT we are off on holls this week.

[G15 Roy]

There is a G15csr for sale in my section if you are intersted.

[mickm]

Hi Roy E-mail sent. Mick

[les ward]

Regarding the frame number the answer should be in Paul Morin's article on Christian's site:

http://archives.jampot.dk/Editorial/Scr ... Morin).pdf

Hope this helps.

[John Donne]

The frame number 110 would make it about 1964 to 1965. The N15CS was a badged version of the Matchless G15CS. The earlier bikes were made to be raced either in the desert or on the dirt tracks of North America. The differences for the 1964 to 1965 bikes is in the front suspension, gas tank, and a few other tweakes. The Berliner Corporations advert from that time went "You do not have to race a Matchless but it's nice to know that you could" They were also advertised as "Dynamite on Wheels" This was also used to describe the later P11 models. The earlier CS's models were usually used for racing. Mike Patrick held the number one plate in the desert on an Atlas Scrambler. The G15CS frame is a modified G12 frame with modified frame lugs. The first one, an Atlas Scrambler was 107388. This was dispatched in late 1963 to BMC in New Jersey. The P11 was later developed, as the N15, and G15CS models were too heavy to compete against the Triumph, BSA, and the two strokes off road and in the desert. Get a P11 if you want to go off road and be a Baja 1000 hero.

[Stan Palmer]

They must be tricky things to define. In the pictures it seems the P11 has Matchless running gear and wheels, but the tanks don't look Matchless.
The G15 has Norton wheels (and maybe forks)but the tanks and frame look Matchless.
The engine and gearbox is a common denominator.
To whom is the AMC gearbox generally attributed, was it Norton taken over by AMC, or an AMC design adopted later by Norton ? AMC actually owned Norton from 1952, but there is precious little resemblance between them until the hybrids (I believe).
Is the electric start seen on Commandos (with sloping engine) adaptable to the upright engine in the Hybrids ?
Stan

[John Donne]

The P11 was based on the G85CS frame and front wheel, or the P11 had the AMC Teledraulic forks, and the G80CS wheels front and rear. The original G85CS had the G50 Matchless rear wheel which did not cross over onto the production version of the P11. The gas tanks for the first P11 was 3.6 gallon version, then the P11A, P11A Ranger and the P11A Ranger 750 had the 2.2 gallon tank that was common to the later G15CS, and N15CS models. The oil tanks, seats, were for the P11 series only. The first series of the P11 had the G80CS scrambler fork internal, but the later P11A series had the road version of the forks. The change being the difference in the springs and dampers, and other minor parts.
The earlier Atlas Scramblers, (the engines were stamped G15CS) had the Norton Roadholder forks but with the G80CS fork internal, with sidecar spring, the damping being G80CS. The wheels are from the Dominators, and the oil tanks and battery box as per the G12 models. The earlier petrol tanks or the first A/S had a flat side and a transfer. The batch after this had the plastic badges and bulges on the gas tanks. The P11 and thwe G15 series are very different in charactor, look and parts wise. The later CS models were more of a street scrambler style bike, with the fork internals being as per the standard 650ss and Atlas internal. The difference being the dampers are an inch longer and the fork stauntions are 25 inches long. The oil volume for the G15 series is 6.5 fluid oz, while the stock Norton or short forks is 5 fl oz. The P11 series have the 6.5 fl oz for their forks.
The gearbox was a redesign of the old Burman box by AMC, and was fitted from 1957. This is very well documented in the marque history books on this subject.
There has been many articles written in the classic press concerning both of these models. CBG did a very in depth article on all the models of the P11 and you can ask for it as a back copy. FW of Real Classic has also written extensily on the subjest of the P11 and G15 series in his excelent publication Real Classic. Ask them for a copy of their back issues also. Try to buy a complete bike, that has matching engine and frame numbers, and a good history and you should be fine. Classic Bike, and The Classic Motorcycle have also had articles on this series of bikes. There is also all the road test from the time when the bikes were then new by the magazines of the day, in England and North America.
The Mark 3 Commando has the electric start via the primary chaincase. This would be quite an engineering task to fit one to an earlier model, but i suspect there will some genuis out there that could do it. Sadly the late and hugly talented Malcolm Saggers in no longer with us, to give his input on such a problem. You could always have a word with Les Emery of Norvil concerning the fitting of an E/S system to an earlier style of twin.

[John Donne]

The N15CS 110076 was dispatched to Berliner in New Jersey June 1964, so that make this particular N15CS a 1964 model. So if you buy it, build it as a 1964 model. It would also have been constructed as scrambler or desert racer type bike. It would have also had all the G80CS type fork internals. It would have the later fli up footrests, as this was made law in 1964. The first batch of 200 that was dispatched in November 1963, had the solid foot rests the same as the G15 Mk2's and the very last G15CSR's. This was due to a change in the law for of road bikes, and also a safety issue if you hit a rock and the footrest did not flip up. See Derek Bennets N15CS to see how this N15CS would have been built and looked.

[John Donne]

If it was dispatched in June 1964 it was built earlier, may be in May of 1964, or earlier in the month of May 1964.