Help me please.

[B-Rich]

Hello all, my name is Bill and am new to this forum. I just bought two bikes and am wondering if you can help identify the exact model as I believe the titles with the bike are somewhat inaccurate.

The first vin is year 1968 "G15C5120395". Should it not be "G15CS" instead of "5". After much research I believe this to be a Matchless Street Scrambler, hence the "CS". It also said "Norton" on the title but by the vin it screams Matchless.

The next is year 1966 "N15C5114679". Also said "Norton" on the title. I believe this to be a Norton Street Scrambler, should this not be "N15CS" instead of 5?

Any help in determining the origin and actual model of these bikes would be greatly appreciated. I have come to understand there is a substantial difference in value depending on the model and I would like to restore the bikes to their rightful glory. Thanks.

[B-Rich]

The frame numbers are

Matchless

1
2
0
3
9
5

Norton

1
2
4
3
6
5

I read somewhere that the way they are arranged makes a difference, the read out just how I typed them.

[les ward]

Hello Bill
You are right in that the 5 should be an S. As in G15CS Matchless and N15CS Norton. It was quite common for Matchless machines to be turned into Nortons in the USA.
The frame and engine numbers should match, as in your first bike. This is a 1967 model going by the numbers. The second bike was made in late 1967 as a 1968 model. (production of 1968 machines commenced in the autumn of 1967).But has an earlier engine from circa 1965.
Regards,
Les Ward
Machine dating officer

PS there is a lot of info at Christian's archives : http://archives.jampot.dk/Edited by - les ward on 08 Oct 2009 08:31:02 AM

[Eric]

Les what year did they start to use matching frame and engine numbers?

[G15 Roy]

Your frame number with the 114 number is from 1965, and the 120 number is from 1966 to early 1967. The 1965 N15CS, or G15CS, has a parts book supplement to the 1964 parts book, as some of the parts issued to the 1965 models were different to the 1964 ones. If you look on the Norton Owners Clubs web site you will see some pictures of my 1966 N15CS, that is near as OEM, or original as i can get it. The 1965 models onward were painted in Candy Apple Red. If you email me direct, i can let you know exactly what the models were, and their dates of despatch.

[les ward]

Hi Eric
Generally AJS/Matchless frame and engine numbers bear no relationship to each other. Nortons produced at Plumstead normally had matching frame and engine number. However the Matchless G15s, which were built at the same time as the Nortons, did have matching numbers.

Hi Roy
I agree frame starting 114 would be 1965, but i think this is the engine not the frame. Frame starting 124 would be late 1967.
I also agree that Frame/engine starting 120 would be early 1967.
Regards,
LesEdited by - les ward on 08 Oct 2009 12:36:29 PM

[John Donne]

The N15CS & G15CS models differed in all years from 1963 through to 1968. The last G15CS & N15CS models ended at 124 number. The 114 model would still have the centre rib fenders, as per the 1963 and 1964 models, but the rear fenders were attached differently. If you email me i can give you a diffinative answer to what the models you have. Most of the CS models were similar, and all that changed were the cosmetics, which did vary allot. The early 1963 through to 1966 had the straight through exhaust pipes, with from 1963 to 1965, the chopped Amal Monoblocs. From 1966 the left and right hand monoblocs, then from 1967 or after 121007 there was coil ignition and Amal concentrics, a different seat. The oil tank and tool box on the early models had a straight up bracket for the oiltank and a bent bracket on the tool box. The later oil tank was pushed in with a bent bracket, and the tool box lost its bracket and used a nut bolt and spacers assembly. they all used MKZ9E batteries. The dual seat was much slimmer, hence the need to pull both the oil tanks and tool boxes. Berliner also used to make the underside of the dual seat lower by hammering them down.The early scrambler models uses Matchless G80CS Teledraulic fork internals, and outside springs, and for 1965 the fork springs were changed, but kept the same damping arrangment. In 1966 the fork spring assemble were internal springs, and the roadster dampers as per the dominator models, but the damper was an inch longer. The stauntions on the 1963 to 1965 models had a screw on large nut to hold on the lower steel bush, and in 1966 this was changed to a circlip so the fork stauntions were also changed. There is many changes concerning all these models. The 1963 to 1964 models had a expander gas cap and no badges, the 1965, had expander gas cap, and screw on badges, with side bulges, and for 1966, this had a screw tank cap, and screw on badges with bulges on the gas tank, and so it goes on. There were also three different types of dual seat. Hope this helps. The Berliner slogan for these models was, You do not have to race a Matchless, but isn't nice to know that you could.

[John Donne]

[John Donne]

Further to you quiery concerning the Matchless but not a Norton stamping. The first Atlas Scramblers or Nortons, engines were all stamped as G15CS/107388, but the nubers would have of course changed, and the gas tank had a Norton transfer in black on the sides. Also some early G15Mk2's had the G15CS stamping on their engines. The first N15CS, was dispatched in January 1964, and the first batch of 200 Atlas scramblers was dispatched, in late 1963. A small point the 1964 G15CS parts book referes to these first 200 A/S, only, as in 1964 all the G15CS & N15CS models had the flip up footrest, and those first 200 A/S had the solid footrests as fitted to the G15 Mk2 models. These solid footrests were also fitted to the last batch of G15CSR models made in 1967. This was due to a law change in the USA concerning off road bikes. These flip up footrest also differed to the later type, as the early ones would not clear the primary chaincase covers, when actually in the frame. This was refered to in the P106/P manual issued by AMC. This over sight was corrected in later models. by machining out the circular part of the footrest to clear the primary chain case, so the footrest could be easily extracted. All G15, N15, 33 models had matching engine and frame numbers from the very first model through to the very last models made. A small point, only 3 G15P models were made and dispatched, and they all went for export, one strangly as an AJS.

[B-Rich]

Thanks for all the info. I see the Matchless frame matches the engine, the Norton engine must have been swapped out at some point. Is it possible to find out if the "124365" frame was a G15 or N15?

Both models have left and right Amal monoblocs with magneto's. There is a place for a battery in the toolbox but looks like there was never a battery in it. Any clues to if it should have a battery? Thanks.