How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

[BillTS3]

Thanks for your responses.

My impression is that the majority of these hybrids were the N15CS and G15CS, intended for the American market, with the G15/33 and G15CSR/33CSR built in far fewer numbers and intended primarily for the UK. Would this be a fair accounting of production? I know the only G15CSR and G15MkII I've seen in person are both at the Barber Museum in Alabama. (They have an N15CS, but no G15CS)

Am I correct in assuming Roadholder fork tubes and sliders with Teledraulic internals were only for the initial G15CS 'N' machines, with subsequent bikes built using long Roadholders?

Norton switched from magneto and monoblocs to distributor and concentrics mid-year 1967, beginning just after serial 121000.

The April, 1967 release date for the G15CS must be for what you would call 'home market'. This should also mean all home market G15CSs came with distributor ignition and concentric Amals.

[John Donne]

The Berliner Motor Corporation were dispatched a huge amount of Matchless G15CSR's and they sold some of them as Norton 750SS's. I have the brochures as proof. Berliner also sold the G15 MK2's, and i saw one American road test and it was shown as a G15CSR, so this would have confused future American readers. There earlier models used the G80CS fork internals. The external fork springs part number were also changed for 1965. These fork or scrambler fork set ups were used for both of the N15CS, and the G15CS, these model being the same apart from the petrol tank badge and engine number stamping. The fork stantions were also different as they used a screw on lower nut and lower special spacer. There was also a special longer damper that was based on the G80CS Teledraulic damper.The later type forks came out in 1966, with only the longer internal dampers, and longer stauntions,the rest apart from the longer oil seal holder, and gaitors were as the Roadholder models. These later forks were fitted to all models of the G15 and N15 series. Looking at the factory records, there were not that many home market G15CS, or N15CS models sold, that is compared to the North American market. Most of these being sold in the later years of production.
The first bike fitted with Lucas coil ignition, was 121007, or the first P11. This had a 4CA CB, in an alloy housing, where the magneto used to be, a 54418910 A/R unit with two MA12 Lucas 12 volt coils, a Zenor diode, and two 6 volt MKZ9A batteries.

[BillTS3]

Thanks for the clarification on the forks, Tony. I've heard several different versions of the history, but yours does make sense, and I've heard you research these details pretty thoroughly.

I've never heard of the 750SS - you say it was essentially a re-badged CSR? When did Berliner market this?

I know its difficult to put numbers on these various models, especially with the badge engineering going on at the time, but going back to my original query, does anyone have an idea of the numbers produced of the various versions of this hybrid?

[Rob Harknett]

Would the 750 be the 1970 Norton Commando model 20 M3 SS

[John Donne]

The Berliner Motor Corporation sold the Matchless G15CSR in about 1966 as the Norton 750SS. It was listed in one of the Hot Rod year books that were released annually. It was edited back then by Bob Green. The Commando was not realeased till 1968 from engine and frame number 126125, and the last G15CSR was 123565, and this was the street scrambler version and not a a cafe racer. Of these only 95 were made and dispatched. The Commando 750SS was an attempt by Norton Villiers to build an off road type bike on the lines of the P11 and G15CS, type bikes. This particular Commando came out in about 1971. So it was six years after the Norton 750ss was dispatched. In answer to the quesion it is not the same as a Norton 750ss from 1966 but a totally different bike.
I did sit down and work out how many were made of each model of the G15, and N15, from the dispatch records, but with gaps in these records, this number can not be the diffinative number of how many of the different variations of the G15, N15, and the AJS 33 were made and dispatched. It was some thing i did for myself. Only three G15P's were made and dispatched as per the factory records.
For the different type of forks internals fitted to these models, the Norton workshop manual has about two pages devoted to this particular aspect of the G15CS. Then there is the 1965 Supplementary List that is to be used in conjunction with the 1964 parts list. IncIdently this is the only listing that shows the AJS 33CSR. The 1965 supplementary list has some very intersting additions if you know what you are looking for and at.

[Rob Harknett]

I believe there is a Norton parts list 1966/67/68 covering 650SS, Atlas, N15CS, P11, P11A, G15CS, G15CSR and G15mk11.
As period Glass books are not considered correct, its not worth mentioning what they state. Even though the DVLA approve of and use them and accept references within for dating etc..

[John Donne]

There are two other parts books for the G15, P11 bikes. The Master parts book for 1966-67-68. This is of A5 size. There is also an A4 size parts books for 1967-1968 G15,N15.P11. This particular parts book the A4 size one is very rare. They both cover all the models, up to the Norton P11A. There was never a parts book issued for the 1968 Norton P11A Ranger 750. In all there were four parts books issued for the G15,N15,P11, AND 33 models. Only the P11 scrambler model, or single seat, high pipe had its own parts book, and also all the P11 series had their own handbooks. The G15,N15,33 were bikes that really should have had a parts book with diagrams in them, but sadly this may have been down to the fact that AMC, and later Norton/Matchless did not have the funds for such a really need, and now really wanted and almost required item.

[Rob Harknett]

Rare books are in the archives inc. both 66 67 68 books Balwin1187/68 and NBC, there was a P11A instruction book.

[John Donne]

There were two P11 handbooks published The first one with a red cover, was published March 1967. The P11A one with a blue or Torquose cover was published in January 1967. I have both and they are the originals.

[Rob Harknett]

John, I believe there were March 1967 & January 1968 Maintenance & Instruction books covering G85CS, G80CS & P11A