Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Information relating to the Matchless G12 or AJS Model 31 650cc twin
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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby SPRIDDLER » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:14 pm

I think you said your previous cable was satisfactory so it would seem that the new one isn't up to the job.
A good check is to re-route the cable in the most sympathetic way possible (usually outside of everything) regardless of it probably being wholly impractical for when riding out on the road.
Bit of a fag if the cable is now routed under the tank but easy enough if you just disconnect its ends and use a spare (which you have of course ;) ) for the test.

Chessiegolf wrote:
I will also do more washing up and ironing to earn brownie points and seek approval for Venhill teflon lined cables.



Never mind the washing up but buy her a dishwasher for Christmas to go with her other surprise present............





Xmas present (530x640).jpg
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I poke badgers with spoons.....from 2 metres.

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby Chessiegolf » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:57 pm

Spriddler, you are correct that the original cable was ok, it was teflon lined but I don't know the make. It was also a lash up with an in-line adjuster midway - I guess a previous owner joined two short outers for economy.

Having replaced this with one from AMC Classic Spares stock (with an AMC part number) I thought I'd be ok but I guess they are sourcing from the cheaper end of the market now.

I don't trust my soldering and anyway to get Tinmans solder and Bakers fluid for two cables is an expense which would be better spent on the best cables I can find, hence looking at Venhill. The positive thing is the clutch cable is a perfect fit so will make a good pattern for a custom cable.

The present looks to be professionally wrapped, I wonder what's underneath.

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby Mick D » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:31 pm

Hi

I use teflon lined outers, (from Venhill), for all of my cables nowadays but my G3 has an AMC Classic supplied Doherty clutch cable fitted, there's very little difference between the action of the teflon and plain cables. Your described cable route is identical to that of my G3 with it's AMC gearbox.

Your description sounds as though one end of the outer spiral is interfering with the inner and that the cable is defective - have you spoken to Steve at AMC Classic about this?

Having checked out the Venhill custom cable service I'm glad I make all of my own - £210 for my current restoration :shock: :shock:

Regards Mick

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby Chessiegolf » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:11 am

To follow up on the suggestions, I contacted Steve at AMC Classic Spares and he confirmed that the cables he supplies are made in Britain and follow the original factory pattern, ie unlined. He also said the routing was fine so couldn't offer an explanation as to why this one is so stiff. He suggested I remove the tank and check that the cable hadn't been pinched anywhere, which I did and it hadn't.

I also resoldered the trumpet nipple onto the failed (lined) cable, which using a 175 watt iron was a speedy job. The difference between the two actions is stark, I've now got a smooth, light clutch back again, however as I'd used electrical solder, I don't trust it long term but fired with success, have dispatched both the clutch and brake cables to Venhill as patterns for replacements.

It may be a while before I get the replacements but will be interesting so see if this is an extravagance or wise move.

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby Chessiegolf » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:53 pm

This job has taken a while to complete as the cable came back from Venhill minus the barrel nipple so was returned. This time they fitted a moulded-on nipple to replace the trumpet nipple and loose barrel nipple. It seems a neat job and am hoping that there's little chance of the cable pulling out but I've no idea what, if anything, is inside the moulding.

The cable is now reinstated and the clutch feels significantly lighter than the unlined version.

While the clutch cable was being made up, I asked Venhill to supply a lined front brake cable, the thinking being that with a lighter action more of the force applied at the brake lever will be transferred to the brake itself.

Having drained the sump after nearly two months of inactivity the engine fired up ok, so now looking forward to the next easing of restrictions and salt to go so that the new cables can be tried in earnest.
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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby ajscomboman » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:44 pm

The whole point of using a brass pear nipple and split barrel is so the cable can be routed through the top yoke hole easily, with a complete barrel nipple soldered directly make it a non starter. I'm surprised you had an issue with the cable from AMC spares as they are made by a highly recommended manufacturer in the UK.

As far as standard cabling is concerned that's a complete red herring as by now most of the bikes no longer have the factory levers etc etc. Making a perfect cable to fit every bike is impossible. Think of the factory spec more along the lines of a starting point and expect to have to alter to suit would be my advice to anyone buying a pre-made cable.

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby Chessiegolf » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:55 am

I'm sorry I've caused consternation, that certainly wasn't the intention.

The clutch cable I had inherited with the bike was a bit of a lash-up in that the outer was in 2 pieces joined with an inline adjuster which was under the tank. It worked ok until the nipple pulled out at the handlebar end. I bought a new cable but unfortunately it was, after just a short ride, found to be increasing in stiffness so, having heard of teflon lined lined cables and the reputation of Venhill, I went to them for clutch and brake replacements.

When the (previously pictured) cable arrived I immediately thought that it wouldn't go through the yoke hole, but after removing the dipswitch cable, I was surprised and relieved to find it went through without difficulty. Please be assured that I have not enlarged the hole and neither had that been done previously, its the same size as the one on the other side, about 9/16" as best I can measure.

Yoke hole 1a.jpg

Clutch lever nipple 1a.jpg


I enjoy riding an old bike, it makes me 17 again, but to my mind classic biking does not have to perpetuate 1950s technology if there are better solutions which don't detract from the overall appearance of the bike. To that end I quite like 12v electrics. I've also given up on boiling chains on a gas stove when I can use modern chain lube.

For the record, I have no interest in Venhill other than as a potential supplier of useful products. I also have no axe to grind with Steve at AMC Classic Spares, I have bought quite a lot of stuff from him during the rebuild and will continue to do so, its just that on this occasion the cable didn't last very long and I didn't disassemble it to find out why.
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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby Andy G » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:30 pm

Chessiegolf wrote:to my mind classic biking does not have to perpetuate 1950s technology.


Agreed, or perpetuate variable quality of spares from some sources out there...poor fit and finish just expose the problems that handed competitive performance overseas.

It's a curious thing that a very substantial part of the appeal of older brit bikes is the "opportunity" to tinker. I love that, but accepting it as"necessity" just encourages the flow of low quality parts knowing we'll just finish them off. That may be fine if you have the time, tooling and skills, but do we expect the next owner, and the one after to have all these?.... That's going to be a smaller and smaller population each generation.

If we'd like our bikes to be user-maintained in the future we should be prepared to pay a little more now to buy and help develop easier to fit spares, and be unafraid to offer and accept constructive feedback if they can be improved.

Quality: "The degree to which a set of inherent characteristics meet requirements'

And yes, I do work in Quality! ;)

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby 56G80S » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:34 pm

Just for a laugh, I find the use of the word "quality" on it's own is often amusing, you'll hear someone say, "That's quality" to which I will annoyingly reply, "So it's pretty bad then?"

With no adjective, the word means very little. In contrast, Andy G has clarified that he is referring to variable quality.

Johnny B

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Re: Clutch and Front Brake Cable Routing

Postby clive » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:11 pm

Andy whilst i would agree with you that it would be great if parts for our bikes always fitted without adaptation. But the reality is if you look at the parts lists there are often 3 or 4 variations for a similar part over the years. Parts which were unchanged kept the same number. Now the difficulty is that few bikes are used for any substantial mileage each year ( 40 years ago i asked how many others were using their bikes for year round commuting and got less than 10 answers) so parts are not wearing out. From building one bitsa and maintaining another i can confirm parts do interchange but sometimes only with persuasion!
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix

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