G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Information relating to the Matchless G11 or AJS Model 30 600cc twin
starfield181
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:56 am
Location: WILTSHIRE UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by starfield181 »

Just bought a 1958 model G11. There is no movement at all on the adv/ret lever which seems to be stuck in the fully advanced position. First thought was to check the actually cable to make sure it was not seized. However, The cable goes into a tallish housing on the magneto cam housing which disappears behind the inlet manifold. The cable itself emerges through the gap between the two inlet ports. There seems to be no room to get at the adjusters and suchlike to remove the cable.

Is there a recognised way to get at the a/r cable in situ.

The bike seems to start easily with no vicious kickback on starting. Perhaps I should just leave well alone.

Thanks

Peter

User avatar
Rob Harknett
Member
Posts: 11236
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: ESSEX UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by Rob Harknett »

Its not well if it don't work.
Normaly you would have the lever set at least a little retarded when starting to avoid kick back, it also helps the engine to keep running when it fires up, not just kick back or spit. Once warmed a little the bike should be driven with the lever fully advanced. You will have to take the tank off to inspect the cable. Theres not usualy a mid way adjuster, the adjuster is usualy on the mag end of the cable. The cable could be kinked or siezed, or the mag cam. You will have to take the tank off. remove the petrol pipes below the taps so theres no need to drain petrol. The longer its left the more difficult the job may become, if say you only have to free off the mag cam with a drop of oil and work up and down pulling the cable by hand.Edited by - Rob Harknett on 06 Sep 2012 5:18:54 PM
Don Madden
Member
Posts: 2882
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: USA USA

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by Don Madden »

Access is dificult on the twins. You can have a cable problem, frozen cam ring, which should rotate a small amount or a cam ring for a non-adjustable mag. To remove the cable, disconnect from the lever first to gain slack, loosen the lock nut on the adjuster at the mag end & screw the adjuster all the way in. Then unscrew the fitting at the mag & you should be able to pull the cable adjuster up enough the expose the cable end fitting at the plunger. If it wont pull up, carefully pry the cam ring out for inspection, which will release the plunger. The is a small stop screw in the mag end plate to limit cam rotation. If the slot is too small to allow rotation, it is fixed type. Clean & lube with oil before re-fitting & align cam ring to limit stop & plunger. Cheers, Don.
starfield181
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:56 am
Location: WILTSHIRE UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by starfield181 »

Thanks for the advice. Biggest problem is getting at the adjuster, this is buried behind the manifold. I think probably it would be easiest initially to get the cam ring out to create enough slack to release everything.
I presume that I can safely remove the contact breaker plate without losing my timing? Long time since I had a K2F mag to play with.

Are there any pictures available showing the exploded view of the front end of the mag and the cable fitting. Would give me a bit more confidence if I knew wat to expect inside.

Peter

quote:
The is a small stop screw in the mag end plate to limit cam rotation. If the slot is too small to allow rotation, it is fixed type. Clean & lube with oil before re-fitting & align cam ring to limit stop & plunger. Cheers, Don.
starfield181
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:56 am
Location: WILTSHIRE UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by starfield181 »

Quite agree.

In fairness prev owner did tell me that he always left the lever in the fully advanced position. The big question now is did it seize up because he never used it or was it always seized and he never got round to fixing it.

Went well enough on my first ride round my test circuit tonight but you could feel a slight jerkiness when trickling in a high gear which could be carburetion but I suspect is the fixed timing.

Better get stuck in I suppose

Thanks

Peter
quote:
Its not well if it don't work.
SPRIDDLER
Member
Posts: 8542
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:00 am
Location: WEST SUSSEX UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by SPRIDDLER »

quote:
Are there any pictures available showing the exploded view of the front end of the mag and the cable fitting.

If you had searched on 'K2F' in the 'Search Forums' facility you'd have found this Lucas manual for the K2F


http://archives.jampot.dk/Technical/Ele ... 2F_KVF.pdf
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
User avatar
Malleon
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 1995 12:00 am
Location: WREXHAM UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by Malleon »

The advance /retard cable has a drum-shaped nipple at the mag. end which locates into an adaptor fitting in a slot machined in the circumference of the cam ring. If this becomes detached from the slot, it can jam and prevent the cam ring from moving and thus making manual adjustment impossible. With the end cap removed from the mag., operation can be seen. Can you describe the contact breaker fitted? The original type as on my G11 is of brass retained by a central screw, located on the armature shaft by a 'pip', and is (usually) easy to remove.
I wish you success in tracing why 'it don't work'!Edited by - Malleon on 06 Sep 2012 9:25:36 PMEdited by - Malleon on 06 Sep 2012 9:28:12 PM
starfield181
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:56 am
Location: WILTSHIRE UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by starfield181 »

Armed with this and the other useful tips I set to and stripped out the cable (having removed the lever to create slack) and the cam ring. The problem was not seizure of ring or cable but incorrect assembly.
The adapter had been allowed to drop out of its slot and was then effectively jammed solid. I have some sympathy, as it took me two goes to get everything to stay lined up but we now have a fully functional a/r unit. When it cools down I will give it a road test, in the interim, I have found a few other 'horrors' - see new thread.

Peter


quote:
The advance /retard cable has a drum-shaped nipple at the mag. end which locates into an adaptor fitting in a slot machined in the circumference of the cam ring. If this becomes detached from the slot, it can jam and prevent the cam ring from moving and thus making manual adjustment impossible. With the end cap removed from the mag., operation can be seen. Can you describe the contact breaker fitted? The original type as on my G11 is of brass retained by a central screw, located on the armature shaft by a 'pip', and is (usually) easy to remove.
I wish you success in tracing why 'it don't work'!Edited by - Malleon on 06 Sep 2012 9:25:36 PMEdited by - Malleon on 06 Sep 2012 9:28:12 PM
starfield181
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:56 am
Location: WILTSHIRE UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by starfield181 »

Thank you for the reply. Comment about searching the Forum noted

However, the Danish site is an absolute gold mine of useful documentation which I have book marked. I tried to find a direct link to it from our web site. If it's there it's well hidden.

Peter

quote:
If you had searched on 'K2F' in the 'Search Forums' facility you'd have found this Lucas manual for the K2F


http://archives.jampot.dk/Technical/Ele ... 2F_KVF.pdf

User avatar
Rob Harknett
Member
Posts: 11236
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: ESSEX UK

G11 - Advance/Retard lever

Post by Rob Harknett »

Well done, now you have the A/R working, retard it a little to find the best possition for starting so it does not just kick back or start and soon stop. Once warmed up fully advace the lever.
I wonder if the ignition was timed fully advanced, if not the timing may be a bit out.
Locked