Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Information relating to the Matchless G3 or AJS Model 16 350cc Heavyweight
Digby
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Location: Norfolk

Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by Digby »

Being short in the leg I thought, and maybe someone will correct me, that if I replaced the double seat with a single saddle I could achieve a lower sitting height, especially as previous posts suggest that short springs be used if fitting a saddle to a sprung frame.

If it will achieve what I want then I am uncertain as to whether I can fit it to my frame. My bike was delivered, according to the dating certificate, in 1952 with its existing frame, engine and gearbox numbers, although the engine number starts with a 53. Looking at the various AJS singles spares lists up to 1954 all of them show a horizontal hole in the top tube just forward of the lugs for bolting the petrol tank at its rear. It isn't until the 1955 Spares List on page 26 that one finds a frame with no such horizontal hole. I assume this hole is to fix the bracket at the nose of the saddle and my 1952 frame doesn't have one these holes.

While I don't understand why my frame appears to be like the post 55 frames what I want to know is can one fit a saddle without the hole, e.g., is there room to fit a fabricated bracket around the frame to attach the nose of the hole to or has someone overcome the problem in a different way?
Digby
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by Digby »

Can anyone please tell me the length of the tip of the nose to the back of the saddle, the width at the broadest point and the width of the nose of part number 014429 which is the sprung saddle for an MS model on page 40 of the AJS 1952 Spares List. The saddle component is the same as part number 013873. If they could also tell me the length of the springs which are part number 014414 and which I assume are shorter than the ones for the unsprung model (part number 013993) as they cost 3d less; which is what I used to get paid a week for giving delivering the milk to the different classrooms in infant school.
Digby
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by Digby »

As no one has been forthcoming with the measurements I requested I assume that no one on this forum has a saddle on a 16ms or knows the dimensions.
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dave16mct
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Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by dave16mct »

Sorry I can't help, I haven't a bike with single saddle. Must be someone who has one??
Cheers Dave.
alanengineer
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Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by alanengineer »

I can give you the overall measurements of the saddle on my G3 rigid. If you are looking at the India made ones, you dont want the Large size.
I will look tomorrow
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Duncan
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Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by Duncan »

Alistair

Sorry no experience of this, I would however imagine that a single saddle with springs would be slightly higher than a standard seat, you may have to bolt it direct to the frame to reduce the height, a trial fit might be a good starting point.

There was a clamp made to fit the frame to fit a sprung saddle to frames without the factory fitted brackets, but these are a rare find these days.
Digby
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by Digby »

Thank you all for your replies. I originally was interested in fitting a saddle to reduce the height but in the meantime I have been trying to address the problem that the single seat is in direct contact with the tool box on the near side causing damage to both. As the rear fittings are not moveable I was going to pivot it upwards and put sleeves on the two mid vertical studs to stop it descending over time. However to clear the tool box I have to raise the front of the saddle so much that the front locating tabs are almost clear of the stud that joins the front and rear sections of the frame This not only looks absurd but exacerbates the problem of my short legs. So I am even more inclined to fit a saddle.

I have spent some time trying to glean the dimensions I wanted and match those with what I think is possible.. On the M18 section of this site I did get the dimensions of 12 ¾” length and 16” wide which are the closest to what I have seen that might fit. The reason I state is because from the front of the recess in the tank to the mounting holes for the springs I only have about 12 ¼”.

I have also read that riding with a saddle on a sprung frame gives one the experience of riding a pogo stick. If that is the case I can't see why one can't use shorter springs to restrict the movement or simply have springs for cosmetic reasons and have a pair of studs running through there centre to eliminate all movement.

I agree that the large Indian Lycett style saddles are too large, not least for the reasons I have given above. On the other hand the small ones also seem less than ideal and the sizes seem to be inconsistent. I don't mind getting hold of an old one as long as the frame is sound as I can always get it recovered.

So based on the information I have so far I am looking for of 12 ¾” length and 16” width. But it would be nice for someone with a similar frame to let me know what they have. I would also like to know the width of the space between the two supports at the front of the saddle so I can begin fabricating a bracket.

Thanks again
SPRIDDLER
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Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by SPRIDDLER »

I don't suppose it helps but here are the seat springs on my old, one previous owner, '47 Model 18 if it helps
Image
Image
Image
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
alanengineer
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Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by alanengineer »

The saddle on my 54 rigid is 13 1/2" long, 16 1/2" wide. I have no reason to think the saddle is not origional
From front of cutout on petrol tank to accommodate nose of saddle to centre line of rear springs, i measured about 11"(bit difficult to measure).
Digby
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Re: Fitting a Saddle on 1952 16ms

Post by Digby »

Thank you for the photographs and dimensions which were most useful. Because I thought the springs are right at the back of the saddle structure this meant that the maximum length of saddle that I could accommodate is the distance between the recess in the tank and the line of the mounting holes. It appears from the dimensions that you have given that this is not the case as your seat is an inch or two longer than the distance. If the spring position is the same as the one in the photograph I can see why I was mistaken.
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