350 Model 8 clutch basket

Information relating to the Matchless G5 or AJS Model 8 350cc Lightweight
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Janet
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by Janet »

Paul, if you look very carefully at Rupert's photo, you can just see the pointy bits of a second row of teeth just under the basket.
Also, the other clue is that he said it has a duplex sprocket on it. While it's always possible a single sprocket has been replaced by a duplex, it probably hasn't been.
The slots on my 250CSR measure 1" +/- very little. Therefore, Rupert's should be fine. I believe I've read on this very forum that people have had difficulty fitting all the plates in, especially new friction plates. I'm sure their solutions will also be here somewhere, including leaving a plate or two out. If it can be fitted so it doesn't slip and doesn't drag, it should be fine.
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clanger9
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by clanger9 »

Yes, despite what the manual says, it appears there was also a shallower duplex clutch basket made (with 15/16" slots). I suspect this is the correct one for 250CSRs (like Janet's). It what I've got in my 250CSR.

Again, despite what the manual says, I suspect the 250CSR clutch is only supposed to have 7 clutch plates, not 9 (like a 350 or CS).

Either way, Martin seems to have managed to find the right part for a Model 8: it's got the duplex chain wheel and the deeper basket (as per Paul's photo).
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
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Janet
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by Janet »

If you go to Christian's Archives, according to the supplementary spares list from 1962 which, on the cover says it's for M14, 14s, 14CS and M8 but inside refers to the Matchless models models, it also includes the CSR. It shows two part numbers for the clutch basket, one for the G2, G2S and CSR for bikes with engine numbers after 12128, and another one for the CS and G5 (350). The number of plates shown there only add to 7 for the G2, G2S and CSR and 9 for the CS and G5.


This sort of contradiction adds to the fun, doesn't it?
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clanger9
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by clanger9 »

Good, spot, Janet. I had been meaning to check the clutch plate counts in the parts list, because while the manual says the clutch used in the CSR is "identical" to the 350, it clearly isn't!

You've confirmed my suspicion that the CSR clutch is 7 plates (with a duplex drive). The G5 and CS seem to be 9 plates (with a duplex drive). The G2 and G2S are 7 plates (with a simplex drive). That leaves the "mystery" of which models have a 9 plate, simplex drive clutch (!) - maybe the early CS??

I'll see if I can put together a definitive table of which models and years have which clutch arrangement, because the factory documentation is just confusing at the moment. Maybe something for a future Jampot article? ;)
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
Rupert123
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by Rupert123 »

That would be a good idea Janet having a data base for these different parts I am sure all the more knowledgeable people on the forum get bored with tyro owners like myself asking the same old questions when they acquire one of these lightweights

Martin.
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Janet
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by Janet »

clanger9 wrote:I'll see if I can put together a definitive table of which models and years have which clutch arrangement, because the factory documentation is just confusing at the moment. Maybe something for a future Jampot article? ;)
Good man.
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Janet
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by Janet »

Rupert123 wrote:That would be a good idea Janet having a data base for these different parts I am sure all the more knowledgeable people on the forum get bored with tyro owners like myself asking the same old questions when they acquire one of these lightweights

Martin.
Ha! You should see the questions I ask and I've been around here for years. :oops:
Sometimes the experts do get a bit miffed but it's when someone asks a question without first looking through the threads to see if it's been asked before. Searching for answers first but missing them is OK. Then there are the people who could look for themselves but prefer to let someone else put the effort in. Finally, there are those who ask for advice, receive an answer that conflicts with their own view so ignore it without acknowledging the input from the poster. No-one has to take advice ( most people ignore mine ;) ) but it does no harm to say thank you.

You'll be fine.
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clanger9
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by clanger9 »

I had a go at trying to make sense of all the Lightweight gearbox & transmission variations.
Link here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!Au7XMUF8xm1UkBPuy8KOlpb2M4uS
[this should open in Excel Online - not sure if it'll work for everyone, but I can't post Excel attachments here...]

What do you think? It's probably full of errors, but it's almost beginning to make sense to me... :headbang:

This is a compilation of what I've been able to obtain from Christian's archives, plus the insights and advice on this here forum (especially from Ozmadman and John Jarrett), plus my own corrections to the more obvious mistakes in the factory parts lists and workshop manuals.

Anybody spot any obvious errors? There's definitely something amiss with the 1966 CSR gearbox part numbers, because these are supposed to be close ratio, but I can't find these part numbers anywhere. Also, if anyone could provide teeth counts or other identifying marks, or just check the info against their own bike that'd be ace!

[edit: I think the part numbers are now correct for all models, including the last of the CSRs. If someone has a late CSR box in bits, please could you count how many teeth your 4th layshaft gear has?]
Last edited by clanger9 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
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Janet
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by Janet »

I've had a quick look through and I'm very impressed. Unfortunately I'm now needing to take time out because of the looming Jampot Rally and I'm not sorted for it. I'm picking Ann up tomorrow so won't be doing a lot then and we're off to the rally on Thursday. I'll get back to you next week if I find anything or can add something.

Now where did I put the tent?
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Re: 350 Model 8 clutch basket

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Janet wrote:Now where did I put the tent?
Well I doubt that you lent it to your predecessor, Roy Blagit...........
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
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