Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Information relating to the Matchless G2 or AJS Model 14 250cc Lightweight
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby Ozmadman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:03 pm

Janet wrote:Paul, Clanger9 has posted on the G5* section that he's been trying to compile information about the 250 clutch variations. The 250 CSRs seem to have different setups from -er- the 250CSRs, depending on the year of manufacture.
Thanks, have seen it but forgot what with all the posts about gearboxes, clutches and centre stands :headbang:
Paul
1960 Model 8
1974 Yamaha RD250B US Model 6 speed

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby Ozmadman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:09 pm

pecon wrote:Well spotted Clanger9, no gap at all, in fact I would not be surprised if they were actually touching. Thanks to all for the parts listing, I'll print it off and see if I can make sense of what I have.
Peter
Yes compared to mine it does look too close, wouldn't be surprised if someone has stuck some shims between the rotor and sprocket to stop the chain taking chunks out of the rotor as mine did. Turn it round and use any shims you may have between the sprocket and bearing in the casing to set the correct alignment. Have a look at the state of my rotor before I put the sprocket the correct way round
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Paul
1960 Model 8
1974 Yamaha RD250B US Model 6 speed

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby pecon » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:09 pm

Ouch!, bet that made a funny noise?

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby Ozmadman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:02 pm

pecon wrote:Ouch!, bet that made a funny noise?

Funny enough it didn't so it probably did most of the damage when the previous owner had it. The engine was also missing the engine breather rotor on the crank, would you believe!, it's a wonder it never seized up as the rotor which fits between the two bearings on the crank also acts as the load on the bearings as you tighten up that sprocket nut. The breather stator was knackered so it rattled around and it had shims fitted to the LH crank spindle up against the crank web to take out the 0.020" end float which is supposed to be there before you tighten the nut. It's all fine now as I rebuilt it properly but you never know when you by a 50 year old bike!
Paul
1960 Model 8
1974 Yamaha RD250B US Model 6 speed

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby clanger9 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:32 pm

Having fun now. I made some diagrams showing what I think are the four Lightweight clutch arrangements:

https://1drv.ms/p/s!Au7XMUF8xm1UkBfKKkSf-xrpuz8H

Useful?

@Ozmadman, which way around does the "stepped" plate go on the inside of a 350 clutch? I had to guess what it looks like and the manual description saying "recess for back plate inwards" is as clear as mud to me...
1966 AJS Model 14 250 CSR "cafe racer"
1993 Ducati 750SS

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby Ozmadman » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:30 pm

clanger9 wrote:Having fun now. I made some diagrams showing what I think are the four Lightweight clutch arrangements:

https://1drv.ms/p/s!Au7XMUF8xm1UkBfKKkSf-xrpuz8H

Useful?

@Ozmadman, which way around does the "stepped" plate go on the inside of a 350 clutch? I had to guess what it looks like and the manual description saying "recess for back plate inwards" is as clear as mud to me...

Looks good! as far as I remember it goes as you have it in your diagram, must be something to do with the different clutch centre (the thing that confused the spares department!!)
Paul
1960 Model 8
1974 Yamaha RD250B US Model 6 speed

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby pecon » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:25 pm

Now the setup is starting to make sense. I seem to have one of 043193, three of 043191 and three of 043192 instead of just two plus 043194

I’m assuming that I have 043193 rather than 043194 which looks like a thicker plate on 043194 as the steel plate to which the cork is bonded on one side is about the same thickness as 043192. :?

One of the steel plates is certainly wrong (second from the top) and will have to be replaced as may some of the others.
Peter
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby clanger9 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:15 am

That's almost right - you're correct that 043194 is the same as 043193, except for the thicker steel plate.
It is presumably thicker because it sits on the pegs of the clutch centre and the thicker steel stops the plate distorting under the clamping force.
The corks on 043192/3/4 appear to be identical. You don't have 043194, because there are/should be NO pegs on the clutch centre.

You have a CSR and so the clutch is different. ;)

The CSR clutch has 3x 043191, 3x 043192 and a single 043193 on the outside. The corks on the innermost 043192 seem to bear directly on the clutch basket (unlike all the other Lightweight clutches...)

It appears you already have all the right plates, just not necessarily in the right order. However, you definitely need a new steel plate. One of mine was a bit like that - I cannot figure out how the tangs could get so worn away!

The good news is you can get all the clutch plates from the club spares scheme and they're not overly expensive...
1966 AJS Model 14 250 CSR "cafe racer"
1993 Ducati 750SS

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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby pecon » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:08 am

Thanks Clanger9 at least I know now what I need (Ithink) I was going nuts trying to figure out how to get a steel plate at the pressure plate AND at the basket end.

Ozmadman: Had a look at the back of my rotor and sure enough it had exactly the same marks as yours. I may have some trouble removing the basket to change the sprocket because the threads for the puller are badly damaged. Perhaps shimming between the rotor and sprocket might be a solution if I run into trouble?.
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Postby Ozmadman » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:34 pm

Have you tried to pull the clutch off yet? Undo the crank sprocket nut and the clutch nut and try just pulling/levering it off. Mine came off easily with a few strong tugs and no puller needed. You could shim the rotor but the chain will not be running in line as it is. Plus if you are not careful the rotor may scrape the casing. Also, when you tighten that sprocket nut it will pull the crank towards that side and remove the approx 0.020" end float that was previously there with the sprocket removed. This is what it is designed to do as once that nut is tightened the 0.020" end float (which has now gone) has left a 0.020" gap between the other end of the crank and the large bronze crank bush to allow for expansion. Any shims can be used in that position (i:e between the back of the sprocket when it is the correct way round and the inner bearing track) to line up the chain. If the sprocket is on the wrong way round I am not sure that tightening the nut will push the sprocket fully home against the outer crank bearing as there is a step on the crank (and facility on that end of the sprocket splines I seem to remember) which may give all sorts of problems??
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Paul
1960 Model 8
1974 Yamaha RD250B US Model 6 speed

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