Scrambler clutch basket?

Information relating to the Matchless G2 or AJS Model 14 250cc Lightweight
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clanger9
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:38 am
Location: Chester, UK

Re: Scrambler clutch basket?

Post by clanger9 »

Yep, I've been through that! Clear as mud, isn't it?

I really like Janet's suggestion of posting photos & measurments of the various clutch arrangements. That will help us all puzzle out exactly how it's supposed to fit together. I will do this next time I have it to bits. Which on current performance won't be long...

For example, I have no idea why you'd need a "loose" plate without tangs (like the one Janet posted). Maybe a 1-week-only random-clutch-special. Who knows?

I feel less bad now about putting mine back together with the pack reversed. a) it fits b) it works.

Well, so far anyway. ;)
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
John Jarrett
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Location: MIDDLESEX UK

Re: Scrambler clutch basket?

Post by John Jarrett »

To add to the debate and to try to answer some of the questions on measurements, I have looked at a couple of clutches/baskets I have accumulated over the years.
I have taken measurements on 4 clutches… 2 complete and 2 baskets with clutch centres only.

For reference :-
Clutch 1 is a complete 250 CS scrambler clutch… taken off a bike I have owned for 40 years
Clutch 2 is a complete early simplex clutch.
Clutch 3 is an unknown duplex chain wheel, basket and centre.
Clutch 4 is an unknown duplex chain wheel, basket and centre.

I have never compared them side by side so I was surprised to see that there were 2 different depths of clutch basket on the duplex clutches even though the centres were the same.

The measurements I have taken… not engineering but the best I can do are:-
Measurement 1 – Centre depth to the basket
Measurement 2 – Centre depth to the shoulder – see picture… this is a feature of the simplex clutches only. There are no shoulders on the duplex clutch centres.
Measurement 3 – Overall depth of basket… an external measurement from the inside edge of the chain wheel to the outer edge of the clutch basket.
Measurement 4 – Overall depth of the slots in the basket.
Measurement 5 – The thickness of the thick inner single sided friction plate including the friction material. Note there is no chamfer on either of these plates.

Measurement 1:- Clutch 1 – 1 11/16”, Clutch 2 – 1 7/16”, Clutch 3 – 1 9/16”, Clutch 4 – 1 9/16”.
Measurement 2:- Clutch 1 – 1 5/16”, Clutch 2 – 1 1/16”, Clutch 3 – na, Clutch 4 – na.
Measurement 3:- Clutch 1 – 1 7/8”, Clutch 2 – 1 5/8”, Clutch 3 – 1 7/8”, Clutch 4 – 2 1/8”.
Measurement 4:- Clutch 1 – 1 3/16”, Clutch 2 – 15/16”, Clutch 3 – 15/16”, Clutch 4 – 1 3/16”.
Measurement 5:- Clutch 1 – 7/32”, Clutch 2 – 7/32”, Clutch 3 – na, Clutch 4 – na”.

From this it looks like there are 2 different types of basket for the duplex clutch, one is the same as the early simplex clutch and the other is the same as the CS 250 clutch.
While I have used imperial measurements it would appear that I have some slightly different measurements to Steve? Steve, is the clutch you are measuring duplex?
I have also taken a couple of pictures of the 4 clutches and the order of the plates on Clutch 1 and Clutch 2 which appear to be correct from the workshop manual apart from the fact that there is no chamfer on the thick inner plate on the standard simplex clutch.
WP_20160614_16_53_58_Pro.jpg
WP_20160614_17_01_38_Pro.jpg
As the maximum number of attachments is 3 I will add the order of the plates in a separate post.
Any questions fire away…
Regards,
John
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John Jarrett
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Re: Scrambler clutch basket?

Post by John Jarrett »

Further pictures of the order of the plates.
WP_20160614_17_27_10_Pro.jpg
WP_20160614_17_21_06_Pro.jpg
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Janet
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Re: Scrambler clutch basket?

Post by Janet »

John, that is absolutely marvellous. From your information and photos, I have clutch 3 on my 1964 CSR. Thank you very much for your time and effort.
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Rangy65
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Re: Scrambler clutch basket?

Post by Rangy65 »

Hi John good stuff! my mesurments are from a duplex clutch. on thing for sure is that the simplex clutch is quite different to the duplex job.

My measurements were very basic with a ruler against the parts, i am unsure if one or two millimeters makes much difference.

I get confused with imperial, it was only metric being taught when i went to school :headbang:

I think i will stick my comments to the G5 section as there's little variation as only about 2500 were made.

Cheers
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clanger9
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Re: Scrambler clutch basket?

Post by clanger9 »

Fascinating, thank you John! :beer:

There is no "shoulder" on the clutch centre on my (duplex) clutch, which matches what you've seen. I think the design is a bit odd for the 250 CSR: the innermost (driven) plate clatters against the base of the basket when the clutch is disengaged and has left a wear mark there. If there's no shoulder (i.e. all duplex clutches), then the innermost plate probably ought to be a driving plate (like a 350), not a driven one (like a 250).

My clutch appears to be a random mish-mash of bits. So, genuinely as it left the factory then. :rofl:

From your photos, I appear to have a clutch #3 basket (duplex, shallow basket), but with a clutch #1 pack (9 plates: 4 driving, 5 driven).
Now I understand what the extra-thick inner clutch plate in my clutch pack is for: it is supposed to rest on the shoulders of the clutch centre! Mystery solved??

I will take some measurements and detailed photos to confirm at the next opportunity...
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
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