1961 G80 ignition

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SPRIDDLER
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Mick D wrote:Hi

I've had a look at the gizmo Greybeard linked above - can anyone advise me as to how this is electronic ignition? It seems to retain the points, coil and by supposition the mechanical ATD :? :? :?

Regards Mick
Yes I had a look and also thought it's just a condenser substitute with a 'points open' indicator. I put it (cynically) in the snake oil and spark enhancer products category but it works for Steve, although it isn't what I would refer to as electronic ignition
His other products are several auto electrical widgets, probably from China - not that there's anything wrong with that. I bought an indicator warning buzzer with fitting kit from China for my modern bike which was about £2.99 delivered and it does the job.
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
AyJayBee
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by AyJayBee »

I have remodelled the old lifter spring = marvellous tool is the Dremel gas blow torch,,,, heat the spring leg up and bend it! Had to fiddle to get the final result, but I now have a valve lifter that works. Just need to learn how to use it
.Before I try starting again I'll set the timing to TDC and see what happens. Failing that I will be on the lookout for a set of pedals to replace the engine, and I suppose it might be provident to attach stabilisers as well!
Thanks for your responses, Tony
Greybeard
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by Greybeard »

I think its a bit harsh to lump it into the snake oil category, Mick. It's certainly not electronic ignition I agree, but its more than just a condensor substitute - there is a little reconfiguring of connections required to fit it. Ive never yet seen a set of points that doesnt spark to some extent when theyre opened even with new condensors. There is absolutely no inkling of a spark with this gizmo. I was sceptical at first but as I was going to fit a new condensor at the time (the one that was in had come with the box of bits that comprised the bike 25 years ago, I thought it would be worth a try given the minimal extra cost. I was very pleasantly surprised as it turns out.
No connection with the seller, just a happy customer ;)

Steve
SPRIDDLER
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Greybeard wrote:I think its a bit harsh to lump it into the snake oil category, Mick.
That was me, Steve.
I don't doubt your experience with it at all but it seems to be mis-described by the seller as 'electronic ignition'. I would be interested to know what's in the box and what it does :? .
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
Plugsnpoints
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by Plugsnpoints »

What I do is to set the piston to 1/2" btdc. Remove the points plate and the advance/retard unit. Align the bobweights with the screw holes as to the diagram in the book give the advance/retard unit a small tap to secure it back on the taper, then wedge the bobweights with wooden wedges, replace the fixing bolt. Then replace the points plate (screws looseish) then rotate the plate gently until the points just open (using a fag paper to check).
mark the back plate against the engine case then remove the plate and remove the wedges.

Replace the back plate into the marked position, then fire it up.
(TDC gauge removed and plug back in obviously) then gently turn the plate either way until you get it running smoothly on a fast tickover. Tighten the wo base plate fixing screws.

It works for me. Just make sure the bobweights are moving freely and returning. Don't forget to set the points gap too before you do anything (15 thou)

Andy :)
Stan Palmer
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by Stan Palmer »

Looks to be a bit more than a condenser. It uses the points to only initiate the spark, single impulse, no continuous current with points closed and ignition ‘on' with engine dead. So presumably some sort of electronic impulse relay. It sounds like a useful low cost improvement for older coil ignition. Electronic ignition tends to include a form of mapping or at least advance retard, so it isn't that but probably worth having. The only coil I have is on my lawn mower, but I do remember the almost weekly ritual of tuning up my cars in the sixties and seventies.
Stan
AyJayBee
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by AyJayBee »

Thanks Andy - seems we have had to dodge the missiles being launched re the 'Battle of the electronic ignition unit', but your input appreciated.
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spookefoote1956
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by spookefoote1956 »

Just read an article in Real Classic about a Velo with a Gammatronix fitted. Interesting beast in that it's a form of electronic ignition which uses the existing points as the switch. In this case the owner couldn't get new points so used the knackered ones solely as a switch to fire the coil via the coil. Also has an LED to show when the points open. Clever really!
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AJSingleDave18
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Re: 1961 G80 ignition

Post by AJSingleDave18 »

I can see that this thread is two years old but I think I have experience that may be useful to others.

When I ordered my 12V negative earth Gammatronix Ignition booster for my 1960 AJS 18 500 single, I was dubious to how well it would perform. It was a fraction of the price of a full contactless ignition system. It was £29.95.

Looking at the many internet comments on electronic ignition systems and they seemed to poo-poo spark boosters, as they considered the contact breaker/points were the weak link in any ignition system and a spark boosters would be compromised by using contacts.

However with my experience with highly tuned Minis prior to introduction to electronics, the performance would noticeably drop off after 2000 miles, due to contact deterioration. Minis have four cylinder engines with one contact to control all four cylinders. Plus they use a much larger coil so the current through the contact is much larger. The revs use in these Minis were possibly higher that those currently used by most AJS 18 or G80 owners.

As the contacts in a AJS 18 or a G80 are operating at a quarter the speed, and quarter the number of times per mile as a Mini so you can expect the single cylinder engine’s contacts to last at least four times longer than a Mini. i.e 8000 miles. Due to the lower contact speed contact bounce and cam-heel wear is also much less. Then take into account that most of the wear/damage to contacts is due to the electrical current burning its way though them their useable life in a AJS 18 or a G80 is going to be in-excess of 10,000 miles when used with the standard coil system.

With a ignition booster the electrical current going through the contacts is much lower. Therefore the contacts in a AJS 18 or a G80 are cannot be the critical item in the ignition system.

Due to the price of the Gammatronix Ignition booster I thought it may be just a pretty looking box containing a cheap single power transistor. I haven’t looked inside the box. I just fitted it and the performance improvements were impressive, especially for the price. Much easier and reliable starting, more constant tickover and sweeter at all speeds. Although I haven’t noted any improvement in the fuel consumption. Possibly with the booster I am travelling a little faster. The improvement wasn’t due to fitting new contacts/points to replace old badly performing items at the time of fitting the Gammatronix booster. These performance improvements were based on just the booster.

As I was so impressed with my Gammatronix Ignition booster I recommended it to a friend with a Norton ES2 500. He was unable to obtain the unique condenser required for his bike making it a none-runner. He wanted to keep his bike looking standard so was very unhappy by the idea of strapping a non-standard condenser on the outside of the distributor. As the booster will not work with a condenser attached the fitting of a booster was the perfect option with the booster hidden from view. He reluctantly purchased a 6V positive earth unit. Now fitted he is very happy and cannot believe how easily it starts.
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