Rear brake locks up - any clues?

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Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by Group Leader »

I've got a problem with my little '39 rigid Beeza's rear brake - it has developed the undesirable tendency to lock solid at times of need! Fortunately on each occasion this has happened at low speed (it doesn't really do high speed anyway).

I've already had it apart and thoroughly cleaned the drum, both mechanically with emery paper and chemically with brake cleaner and the old, worn and contaminated brake shoes have been relined. I cannot replicate the fault by spinning the wheel, either by hand or putting it in gear and running it up on the stand, and then stamping on the brake. A possibly useful fact is that once locked it doesn't free itself until the bike is put on the rear stand, just trying to wheel it backwards does not free it. A bit of research has suggested that a worn brake actuator bushing (which I interpret as the bearing in the backplate for the cam) could cause this so there's something to be checked when I've got the inclination to take the wheel off yet again! Think I will just go for a ride on the 16MS, that's more fun than meddling with inferior machinery.

By the way, it's a single leading shoe design and so has a common fixed pivot for the other end of the shoes.

Has anyone experienced and, more importantly, fixed a similar problem? Any ideas? Or perhaps I should sell it and get a proper bike. A 7R would fit that bill! :rofl:

Alan
1953 AJS 16MS, 1939 BSA 250 and a 1/3 scale Sopwith Triplane but that's another story ..... :lol:
Mick D
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by Mick D »

Hi Alan

I don't know if the detail is the same or similar, but locking rear brakes is quite a common discussion on the Ariel Owner's Forum - maybe worth a search:

http://forum.arielownersmcc.co.uk/searc ... d3388298f1

Regards Mick
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by P10 »

Initial grab can usually eased by putting a slow chamfer on the leading edge of the brake shoes. Are the brake shoe return springs correct and perhaps not strong enough to return the cam? As the brake has been relined, I assume that the cam is correct and not getting too near its 'peak' when the brake is on. The brake shoes need to be adjusted to run close to the drum without needing too much cam rotation to apply the brake. Does the BSA use steel protectors against the cam and are they there? I don't know the BSA set up but should there be a brake pedal return spring that is missing which also might help a little if it is? It sounds as though the servo effect is putting the brake on and there is not enough force present to pull the shoes off again.
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by 56G80S »

IKBA but picking up on P10's point, is there scope to adjust the fit of the actuating arm onto the shaft? You'll probably know, but maximum pressure should be just before the 90 degree point. Perhaps that element needs adjusting now the "new" shoes are in?

Johnny B
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by Group Leader »

Thanks chaps, you maybe onto something with regard to springs - there seems to be a distinct lack of them!

It would appear that the hub is actually fitted with the bearings, axle, axle fittings and shoes from an M Series rather than the B Series although they should be OK, M series are generally bigger and heavier machines. It appears from the parts book that actually the arangement is very similar (not as well engineered though!) to the AJ which I suppose is no surprise.

However, both the proper pedal return and the rear brake rod spring are missing and the only thing providing a returning force is the stop light rod spring. In the absence of a suitable coil spring to go round the pedal pivot shaft I have temporarily improvised with a suitable tension spring anchored to the frame and pedal. At the backend I've found a suitable nut to run down the adjustment thread and a coil spring to act on the brake arm / rod pivot to help return the brake arm and shoes to the off position so hopefully that side of things is functional if not "correct" for the model according to the parts book.

The actuator arm / rod adjuster were correctly set so that the arm came close but could not exceed 90 degrees when fully on as going over centre would not be good.
I haven't summoned up the enthusiasm to remove the wheel yet again from the bike so I will give the bike a cautious test as it now is although I suspect that the problem won't have been solved by the improvements even if it is at least closer to mechanical correctness.

The next stop will be to remove the wheel, check the linings and chamfer the leading edge and to check for play/slop in the cam pivot as it seems plausible that if that bearing was worn the application of the brake could induce the sahft and thus the cam to adopt a different position causing the whole lot to lock up.

Thanks for the advice so far, watch this space!

Alan
1953 AJS 16MS, 1939 BSA 250 and a 1/3 scale Sopwith Triplane but that's another story ..... :lol:
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by alanjennings »

Now,now! My dear wife and I ran a 1949 350 b.s.a. for many years including a trip to Spain! A very well made and reliable machine.the back brake was excellent although the front brake was not! Yours appears to be missing vital parts I am sure it can be sorted!
Alan [Morini] Jennings
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by P10 »

The missing pedal return springs is not helpful and the brake switch spring won't be much help at all. The main return force comes from the brake shoe springs which need to be strong to the point of often being difficult to fit! Good luck. The good news is that BSAs are usually straightforward to work on but you might not feel like that at the moment.
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by Duncan »

I would check the size of the cam if the bike is a mixture of parts its possible that it is going over/onto centre so to speak as it lifts the shoes and locking on
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by Group Leader »

It seems I may finally have cracked the problem (or was it two, three or four problems?) ....

Problem number 1) - The brake drum assembly seems to be an amalgam of bits, some from the original bike and some e.g. the shoes from a a different or later bike resulting in a bit of mismatched geometry. The result was that (particularly after I had the shoes re-lined) there was very little free movement before part of the shoe made contact with the drum.

Problem number 2) - Another result of the mongrel assembly, the wrong part of the shoe made contact with the drum i.e. the end of the shoe next to the fixed pivot about an inch in from the end of the lining was making contact.

Problem number 3) - There was some wear in the hole of the torque link were it fitted on the stud in the backplate.

Problem number 4) - The non standard (home made?) rear stand fouled the nut on the torque rod back-plate stud when the bike was on the stand.

Numbers 1 & 2 were solved by mounting the shoes on the faceplate of my lathe and skimming approximately a 1.5mm of the nice shiny new shoe away and then using a flat Permagrit tool (wonderful tools, no one should be without them) to remove a little more from the lower, fixed pivot end. The result was that there was some free movement of the arm before the shoes made contact with the drum and subsequent testing showed that the, at first, ineffectual braking power of the shoes due to the wrong contact point was now much improved. Number 4 has been temporarily solved by improvising an extension to the stand stop (a Jubilee clip and washer) to prevent the stand contacting the torque rod nut. This will of course have to be replaced by something a little more sanitary as a matter of urgency!

I think the answer is something along these lines ......

The combination of all four is what caused the brakes to lock up, only releasing when you put the bike on the stand: When the bike was put on the stand the backplate was rotated against the direction of the wheel by the amount of slop (admitedly there wasn't a lot, it was just discernible) in the torque rod bolts. When the bike was in motion with the stand clear of the torque rod nut and the brake was applied hard the backplate rotated in the direction of the wheel to take up the slop. The limited clearance of the shoes and hence minimal free play of the arm resulted in the shoes remaining in contact with the drum even though the brake pedal had been released, not helped by the originally missing springs mentioned previously. When the bike was subsequently put back on the stand to investigate, the backplate was rotated backwards when the stand made contact, releasing the brake shoes allowing the wheel to rotate as if nothing had happened!

Anyway, a reasonably long test ride on suitably deserted bits of road, initially very gingerly, testing both the efficacy of the brakes and checking that there was no tendency to lock up remaining would seem to indicate that the problem is cracked. Having had the wheel in and out approximately 15 times now I can now do it much quicker although the process it is still far from being a work of art. I have to say, at one point Ebay was looking extremely tempting :headbang:

Alan
1953 AJS 16MS, 1939 BSA 250 and a 1/3 scale Sopwith Triplane but that's another story ..... :lol:
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Re: Rear brake locks up - any clues?

Post by Duncan »

Well done for persevering, good to hear you have resolved it and what the problems were.
Locked