Model Numbers

[Martin.S]

Where did the models number assignment come from ie G2 M14 G11 G31 etc etc

[Rob Harknett]

Manufacturers had to give their motor cycle's an ID. This would prove important when ordering spare parts, if nothing else. For this reason it is still very important you always state year and model. Part numbers were also changed over a time period. So it is now important you also discover the latest new part number for a part, as was last used by AMC.
AJS models started with AJS of Wolverhampton giving models a letter to I.D. them. E.G. model B. as time passed updated models got a number suffix. Like B1 arriving at B5 in 1924. In 1925 AJS were referred to by a model number, prefixed with a year code letter. Starting E1 ( which was a v. twin. )
Model numbers then updated yearly by the year code letter. By 1932 prefix year code letter had arrived at S. In 1933 AMC had now purchased AJS. They dropped the year code letter prefix letter using the last two digits of the year, prefixing the model number. E.G. 33/1.
Matchless models, were given a model letter. EG. A. B. C. etc. there was an 8B2 during WW1 time period. After WW1, they continued with a model letter EG H, later versions a number may have also been used H/2, sometime another letter was added EG model T progressing to T/S2 etc. It was not until the early 1930's did Matchless prefix a model ID with a year code, for which they used the last two digits of the year. In 1935 The Matchless model's got a G prefixing a number. EG G3, as new models were introduced a letter or letters suffixed an engine model number. Some indicated suspension type. ( On AJS & Matchless. ) Some also indicated the competition type the model was. ( On AJS & Matchless. ) Some models both AJS & Matchless may have also been given names. There seems to be no reason why manufactures choose a particular letter or number etc. except, they had to give a model an identification

[clive]

All good Rob but it does not explain why the 350 single was called a G3 whilst the 500 was G80 whilst the 500 twin was a G9. Never really worried me but now the question has been asked.......anyone know

[Duncan]

Not an answer but if you look at the AJS Pre-war Models section in the following link (Matchless are on the destination page too) you can see how the model reference evolved until becoming more fixed in the mid 1930's as Rob stated : http://www.jampot.com/H_Start.asp

[SPRIDDLER]

I think what Martin's getting at is why were 'G' and 'M' used, and why a 3, 9, 14, 16, 80 etc.
Someone originated the alpha and numeric designations for the model numbers so did the alpha reference have any basis in drawing numbers or geography etc., and did the numeric refer to the capacity; cu. ins., bore diameter, ............
We know that 'C' was for Competition, 'S' for rear Sprung, 'L' for Light (Teledraulic as opposed to girder forks), 'T' for Trials...........
From Duncan's link it shows that at the beginning, 1910, the model numbers started with 'A' then progressed year by year through the alphabet so maybe it's as simple as that.
Some other manufacturers' seemingly random model numbers have logical explanations.

Could the answer be '42' ?

(I'm bored - been up most of the night nursing my son's poorly dog )

[Plugsnpoints]

I think what Martin's getting at is why were 'G' and 'M' used, and why a 3, 9, 14, 16, 80 etc.
Someone originated the alpha and numeric designations for the model numbers so did the alpha reference have any basis in drawing numbers or geography etc., and did the numeric refer to the capacity; cu. ins., bore diameter, ............
We know that 'C' was for Competition, 'S' for rear Sprung, 'L' for Light (Teledraulic as opposed to girder forks), 'T' for Trials...........
From Duncan's link it shows that at the beginning, 1910, the model numbers started with 'A' then progressed year by year through the alphabet so maybe it's as simple as that.
Some other manufacturers' seemingly random model numbers have logical explanations.

Could the answer be '42' ?

(I'm bored - been up most of the night nursing my son's poorly dog )

I find it interesting that with the G3L, the 'L' stood for lightweight yet the next generation are also known as lightweights. All I know is that my M16 (identical to the Matchless obviously) is anything but a lightweight! It weighs a ton!

[SPRIDDLER]

Yes, the Teledraulic forks were relatively light when compared with the girders.
The H/W's used 'L' in their official model numbers whereas the term 'Lightweight' or'L' isn't used in the Lightweight model numbers (all had Teles) but seems to derive from marketing speak and colloquial usage.

I haven't compared the H/W and L/W weights but I think that the rather unfortunate (and unintentionally diminutive) term 'Lightweight' was with reference to the later bikes with the more compact appearance of the pseudo 'unit' engine/gearbox construction, and possibly an alternator and coil in place of the H/W's heavier dynamo and mag, rather than the bike's actual kerbside mass.

But then I know little about Lightweights except that those of chums seem to go very well.

EDIT - (Still deskbound on canine nursing duty)......
From the 1954 Owners Manual the 350 H/W springers weighed 375lbs dry. The rigids 344lbs and the Comp rigid 300lbs. All the 500 singles (G80's etc) were around 11lbs heavier than the 350's.
I've just found a good comprehensive review in Old Bike Mart of the 250cc Model 14 / G2 Lightweight which weighed 343lbs wet. Maybe the 350's were only a few pounds heavier than the 250.

https://www.oldbikemart.co.uk/the-light ... -forgot-2/

[Rob Harknett]

All good Rob but it does not explain why the 350 single was called a G3 whilst the 500 was G80 whilst the 500 twin was a G9. Never really worried me but now the question has been asked.......anyone know

I thought I concluded by saying all manufactures needed to give a vehicle a model ID. Also some ID for year. This was all done by letters and numbers. Some used a year ID that could easily be read, others you needed factory information to discover a year of manufacture.
Matchless started naming models A B C. I guess they soon realised they would get to Z.
AJS of Wolverhampton keep things quite simple by settling for a model number prefix with a year code letter starting in 1925 with E. The year codes I have already given in my prewar articles. 25=E 26 = G, 27=H, 28=K, 29=M, 30= T. 31-R, 32=S From then on AMC used 2nd to digits of the year.
Matchless was more complicated, I have explain a little in my first posting how models were given an ID using various letters and numbers. Also how the updated a model range ID using additional letters and numbers. Year of manufacture was based on a more complicated numbering method. Each model range, H, J ,L, M, T, X, A, B, C, D, F, G etc was given its own series of frame numbers, sometimes starting a no,1, sometimes 250 or 500. So you then needed to know start and end numbers for each series to discover the year of Manufacture. Only factory records may perhaps show. These records are considered lost. However back in 2017 I discovered a book that gave these factory supplied start numbers for each year/model. Along with help from FBHVC got the DVLA to accept my findings as factual, for Dating. This was not announced and made known publicly until early 2018 via FBHVC news magazine. When the 100th anniversary of Matchless arrived, some thoughts of what to do that would relate to those 100 years, was to list 100 Matchless models. Which some one was going to do. It never happened. But for my own amusement I made a list getting up to 120 models by 1939. ( Perhaps Jampot editor may like that file to fill a couple of pages sometime in Jampot ) How did they arrive at G80 and model 16 and 18 AJS simple, D80 became G80 in 1935 onwards. AJS 350 OHV was model 6, 500 OHV model 8, post war they just added a one to get model 16 and 18. What about Matchless getting a G prefix. Cast your eyes back at model letter's I have noted that were used. H J L M T X A B C D F G. NOTE; It was about 1930 they started going through the alphabet again. When they arrived at G all Matchless single's numbers there after were prefixed G. The V twin had reached X/4 which reverted back to X in 1937. Frame numbers for dating stopped and re started several times for both AJS and Matchless from the mid 30's onwards.
From 1933 both AJS & Matchless engines are dated by the last two of the year prefixing the model and actual engine number. To date frame numbers, you would need factory information of yearly start numbers. Both margues shared the same number series from circa 1933. Post war onwards both marques were only badge different. There were a few exceptions.

[Andy51]

Of course, there may not necessarily be any real logic in the model numbers/designations. I watched a programme about cars some years ago, and the interviewer spoke to Nissan about a car version which, if my serves me right, bore the initials ELS. He asked what the ELS stood for and the manufacture's rep replied that it didn't actually stand for anything in particular, it just identified it as an upmarket variant. I suspect the Matchless G80 comes from the pre-war Clubmans model and the 80 was its claimed top speed, a bit like another manufacturers models - think T90 and T110, or in the 4 wheeled world, XK120 and XK140. Looking for consistent logic over the years in model designations is a bit like looking for consistency among cats! Cheers, Andy

[Rob Harknett]

Of course, there may not necessarily be any real logic in the model numbers/designations. I watched a programme about cars some years ago, and the interviewer spoke to Nissan about a car version which, if my serves me right, bore the initials ELS. He asked what the ELS stood for and the manufacture's rep replied that it didn't actually stand for anything in particular, it just identified it as an upmarket variant. I suspect the Matchless G80 comes from the pre-war Clubmans model and the 80 was its claimed top speed, a bit like another manufacturers models - think T90 and T110, or in the 4 wheeled world, XK120 and XK140. Looking for consistent logic over the years in model designations is a bit like looking for consistency among cats! Cheers, Andy

AJS & Matchless number had nothing to do with speed, G80 replaced the D/80, G90 was a tuned version of G80. AJS de lux / tuned models got a different number eg model 12 250 de lux was 22, 350 went from 16 to 26. In 1938 AJS introduced Silver Streak models, 22 & 26 then getting SS suffix, 500 was model 8 18 & 18SS