Kettering Classics

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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

If we aren't using the showroom space at Kettering for bike sales are there other activities that could make use of the space and bring in funds for the club?

First of all. Paid staff do the job they are taken on for. Mainly admin and spares picking packing etc. They may not have a vast knowledge of bikes or bike valuation. Ernie was a hard act to follow. He had knowledge in all areas, bikes, spares, valuation. There was not a pile of applications from people to interview when vacancies arose.

Answer to question above;........... If we .....
Surely you must have noticed, After Ernie retired his bike sales, we almost immediately off set some of the loss of rent from Ernie, by letting space to John Bolton to do repairs etc., after his departure the same space is now rented to the Vincent O.C. Spares dept. So this makes up for some of the loss from Ernie, leaving bike sales a little less to achieve, to pay its way. Before any ask's. Down sizing was and is always a consideration. Kettering is getting old, but with reasonable expense to maintain it, still has a few years life left. If at lest sections reps attended a few meetings, you would know, most questions raised would have been considered for everything concerning the club. However suggestions do not simply get brushed aside. Even if such suggestions have been raised in the past, re consideration does happen. Each to their own, we cannot always please everyone. We desperately need more vacant places filled on the committee. We also have to find directors from the committee. So that's 3/4 more names to find.
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by 56G80S »

I just keyed a long response (30 minutes) to this and lost the lot when clicking "Submit" and no time to redo it properly.

In summary, I am Company Secretary to an FE College and have been the same to two others as well as previously a school Governor.

All suffer from recruitment problems to the Governor (=Club Committee) role. A clearer picture is required of the benefits as opposed to the commitment; satisfaction, training to meet Committee / Club skills gaps, opportunities for improved CV, management supervision. Perhaps expenses for attending meeting, spares at cost for personal use only, contribution to internet costs - I don't know.

I have my "excuses" for not volunteering. So have others. If nobody does the Club is sunk. Please tread carefully on the work of those who have put substantial time and effort into keeping the Club going, even if you feel that there have been errors, the fact is the Club is here and it's pretty good.

My wrist aches and logging off.

Johnny B
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bigwol
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by bigwol »

Quite a few opinions re this post! I was aware that stock was at low levels for Kettering Classics but until I read this not that it was non existent!
I have not sold or bike through the club outlet, nor tried to - as my wife says I never seem to part with any - but have considered buying on a few occasions and missed out one a couple of bikes in particular by days through not being able to view until Saturdays due to distance and work commitments.
From a personal perspective prices have always seemed to be to the top end of the range which is not a problem with bikes of decent quality and provenance.
I too have heard of the blanket £500 commission - perhaps a percentage of sale price would be more in line with competitors? The website still states that Kettering will buy outright or sell on commission, is that still the case or should the wording be changed?
On my most recent visits to Kettering there were far more other marques for sale then our own and I have been particularly concerned over the number of Vincents in the "showroom", some of them in very poor fettle. I did hear a suggestion that they had been allowed to display them to fill up the space - I hope that was not entirely true and that some charge was made to either the OC or seller? If we are charging our own members £500 to sell a bike but not charging VOC for the facility then that is unacceptable. I also understand the open day was changed at the bequest of the VOC despite the clash with the IJR. Are we pandering a little too much to our tenants wishes?
I also know personally of club members contacting Kettering to ask about selling their lightweights from HQ and being told their bikes were not wanted as they didn't sell well - not the case as all sold quite quickly through other avenues - with the result of at least one member not renewing and leaving the club. Surely ANY model of AJS or Matchless in the showroom is better than none?
A further issue as has already been mooted could be a lack of knowledge and expertise regarding the bikes at HQ these days due to a complete change of staff in recent years. Unfortunately this is also reflected in the spares service. A recent order I tried to place I had to cancel some items as I couldn't be sure the items available would be correct and the individual on the other end of the phone was quite unhelpful regarding checking and getting back to me. It turned out one of the items I would have purchased would have been fine, the other two not so although I want to be loyal to the club scheme it was far better to consult one of our main competitors to get the information needed and correct part. I appreciate this is not an easy fix but at least a more helpful attitude might encourage members to continue to support the scheme rather than go elsewhere to find better customer service.
Apologies for the long winded post!
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

bigwol wrote:Quite a few opinions re this post! I was aware that stock was at low levels for Kettering Classics but until I read this not that it was non existent!
I have not sold or bike through the club outlet, nor tried to - as my wife says I never seem to part with any - but have considered buying on a few occasions and missed out one a couple of bikes in particular by days through not being able to view until Saturdays due to distance and work commitments.
From a personal perspective prices have always seemed to be to the top end of the range which is not a problem with bikes of decent quality and provenance.
I too have heard of the blanket £500 commission - perhaps a percentage of sale price would be more in line with competitors? The website still states that Kettering will buy outright or sell on commission, is that still the case or should the wording be changed?
On my most recent visits to Kettering there were far more other marques for sale then our own and I have been particularly concerned over the number of Vincents in the "showroom", some of them in very poor fettle. I did hear a suggestion that they had been allowed to display them to fill up the space - I hope that was not entirely true and that some charge was made to either the OC or seller? If we are charging our own members £500 to sell a bike but not charging VOC for the facility then that is unacceptable. I also understand the open day was changed at the bequest of the VOC despite the clash with the IJR. Are we pandering a little too much to our tenants wishes?

I also know personally of club members contacting Kettering to ask about selling their lightweights from HQ and being told their bikes were not wanted as they didn't sell well - not the case as all sold quite quickly through other avenues - with the result of at least one member not renewing and leaving the club. Surely ANY model of AJS or Matchless in the showroom is better than none?
A further issue as has already been mooted could be a lack of knowledge and expertise regarding the bikes at HQ these days due to a complete change of staff in recent years. Unfortunately this is also reflected in the spares service. A recent order I tried to place I had to cancel some items as I couldn't be sure the items available would be correct and the individual on the other end of the phone was quite unhelpful regarding checking and getting back to me. It turned out one of the items I would have purchased would have been fine, the other two not so although I want to be loyal to the club scheme it was far better to consult one of our main competitors to get the information needed and correct part. I appreciate this is not an easy fix but at least a more helpful attitude might encourage members to continue to support the scheme rather than go elsewhere to find better customer service.
Apologies for the long winded post!
If you could not discover the correct pt. no. for parts wanted. Did you contact helpliner Dave? Contact no. seen on about every other page of Jampot. I can also help with pre circa 1952 bikes, parts list for which, show old pt. no's. At that time AMC switched to a new pt. no. system, which the club uses. You get spares from the club spares, help elsewhere within the club.
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by SPRIDDLER »

If the KCC operation doesn't provide a worthwhile profit (after its realistic costs/overhead are considered) maybe we should discontinue bike sales.

My impression is that there doesn't seem to be sufficient 'need' by members for a club sales facility and I doubt that folk join just to make use of it. Members wishing to sell can use the Jampot 'Adverts' section themselves which has far greater geographical cover and doesn't incur commission or transporting the bike. Obviously there are also the online auction sites.

Perhaps, if we didn't need a sales area (or the VOC) we could downsize the building and save more than the VOC and KCC's financial contribution (with far less effort). Roy has loads of sheds.

As far as I'm aware we only use the current building as a warehouse for stock/admin and very few people ever visit. With suppliers offering/achieving 48hr deliveries only a local or someone in desperate need would collect from Kettering.
Do other Owners' Club have busy sales areas/ showrooms?
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
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bigwol
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by bigwol »

Rob Harknett wrote: If you could not discover the correct pt. no. for parts wanted. Did you contact helpliner Dave? Contact no. seen on about every other page of Jampot. I can also help with pre circa 1952 bikes, parts list for which, show old pt. no's. At that time AMC switched to a new pt. no. system, which the club uses. You get spares from the club spares, help elsewhere within the club.
I did indeed have the part numbers Rob, the issue was that the parts in question seemed very different from the OEM parts. One part was needed as a replacement for a spare purchased some time ago from the spares scheme - using the correct part number and that was confirmed this time round - that didn't fit when I went to use it. Quite reasonably I wanted to check if all stock was incorrect or if the wrong part had been incorrectly packaged. As the sales person was not willing to check i went to a competitor who explained that one part was different but correct and also supplied the correct part to replace the one which Kettering had previously supplied and was unusable. On this occasion the competitor gave far better customer service that the club scheme which I thought - perhaps wrongly - was there to provide a service and assist club members.
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

Hi Dave. Kettering should be advised of any part faulty, did not fit etc. But there is no one there voluntary or employed to actually give advice about bikes. Which can be very time consuming. I think twice now about calling back, in particular to a mobile. Single calls at £2+ push up my phone bill a lot. I am sure they must get a lot of problems due to parts not fitting. I guess in most cases, the person not knowing what parts their bike consists of. Non original, perhaps even altered from original. They just supply what's ordered. One may also order a part believed to be correct, as the number is stated in the parts list for their bike. But they may not have any errata's, mid year updates, etc. which may have corrected a parts list. Quite often a part from the club was made by the same supplier that supplies other companies. Perhaps we are the guinea pigs that have to prove them.
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Groily »

These are seriously hard subjects and it's not surprising there are so many views, based on different people's experiences - bitter or otherwise.
I would just hate to be selling parts to me! So often what one thinks one wants isn't actually correct because the bike isn't. None of mine is, although one or two are close-ish. With all the variations, and tiny differences sometimes, it's pretty difficult to get even supposedly 'simple' things right. Ref all the discussions on control cable lengths and other very fiddly things. I often get the impression that no-one's actually wrong, but the result is still a certain level of unhappiness.
And then there's the question of getting bits made, using if possible a known-good original as a pattern - minefield or what? Even if the pattern is correct, is the replica a good one? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Add in the fact that we're tight as hell, and only want to pay the list price from 1955 or whatever for top quality lifetime guaranteed items, and it's a recipe for 'oh dear'.

As to bike sales, makes me laugh if anyone thinks they are going to get a warranted beast that has already been around for over half a century. I have never bought any classic, from whatever private or trade source, which has been quite as described in every respect. So the first thing I have always done is take at least the oily bits apart, and see for myself. Then, one knows. But it's a fool's paradise we're in if we think we can pick up a beast in perfect working condition unless we have known the PO and the machine for a good while.

Machines are sold for a reason, and I always assume not for a particularly good one! Very occasionally I have been pleasantly surprised when looking at what I've just bought. But usually I expect to be doing quite a bit. And that's me, who doesn't care about cosmetics, doesn't possess a tin of polish even. But just to get 100% function, as the basis for something reliable, takes some effort.

So, unless really looking for 'correct in every way' (forget 'original' mostly, as most bikes are the chippie's favourite hammer with three new heads and four new handles), I believe in cheap, non-running even, and expect to have to do stuff that swallows the differece between 'cheap' and market price (and more usually!) Might be lucky, but in whatever case, won't be disappointed. If buying expensively, chances are that there will just as much to do, and that hurts.
And never believe a single word about a machine whose history you don't know. One man's 'excellent condition in every way' is another man's 'wouldn't go beyond the end of the road on it.'

The great thing about clubs (like ours) is that regular attendees at events and meetings ought to be able, with patience, to find a known-good machine from a known-honest seller, at a fair price, and everyone will be happy.
Where that leaves the idea of a sales operation run for the overall benefit of the club, I don't know. But if I wanted a good machine of the marque (rather than a fixer-upper), I'd talk to members and friends, and be prepared to wait a bit if necessary for the right thing to surface.
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by GOLDSTAR »

I think we sometimes have to help ourselves as a club, some time back I ordered a couple of lock washers from spares for the mainshaft of a non shocked short stroke comp engine, I was sent the incorrect ones, I returned and asked for the correct replacements only to be resent the same wrong ones. I contacted kettering and was told I was getting the correct parts identified by the parts number, long story short I contacted Andrews, the supplier, and found that he had the incorrect part number and had been supplying the item under this no. for some time. We went through the parts books and found an illustration of the correct piece, he told me he had no knowledge of this one and asked I send him my used one in order he could replicate and supply the correct item. This I did and the club should now have the item correctly listed. [not only this but he sent me a couple of 'em gratis, good egg!] kind regards
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

GOLDSTAR wrote:I think we sometimes have to help ourselves as a club, some time back I ordered a couple of lock washers from spares for the mainshaft of a non shocked short stroke comp engine, I was sent the incorrect ones, I returned and asked for the correct replacements only to be resent the same wrong ones. I contacted kettering and was told I was getting the correct parts identified by the parts number, long story short I contacted Andrews, the supplier, and found that he had the incorrect part number and had been supplying the item under this no. for some time. We went through the parts books and found an illustration of the correct piece, he told me he had no knowledge of this one and asked I send him my used one in order he could replicate and supply the correct item. This I did and the club should now have the item correctly listed. [not only this but he sent me a couple of 'em gratis, good egg!] kind regards
Had a similar problem many years ago when Ernie ran the club spares. Perhaps he spoilt us, because with him running spares, you also had an expert of the marque. He could quickly give a reply off the top of his head, with out any research. Even then, there were still wrong parts. I recall getting an SR1 mag cover gasket. It was thin paper. I told Ernie this was wrong. Ernie said we have sold enough of these and no one has complained. I knew the paper gasket was wrong as I had a 55 350 Matchless brought almost new early 1956 ( SR1 was on 500 only in 1954 ) I still had an original cork SR1 mag cover gasket in a Lucas packet I loaned to the club. Which Ernie had not seen before. I do not know if a paper gasket was ever introduced, but first it was cork. This did of cause give a good watertight seal, with out over tightening the 3 screws, which would then easily crack the Bakelite cover.
Locked