The future

[mikeydpippin]

Recently bought a G3 from a well known and respected motorcycle dealer been in the trade since the sixties.
The future of the old British bike doesn't look good, out of his 6 motorcycle mechanics only 1 could repair an old classic bike.
The rest were clueless to how the bikes worked.
Not sure how this can be rectified.
Give it 10-15 years this club would be without the knowledge, why oh why is the basics part of the mechanic training.
Bit like cars I suppose, plug in and give me the diagnosis.

[thornebt]

Bit like cars I suppose, plug in and give me the diagnosis.

In my experience the problem with the modern mechanics, or technicians as they call them now, is that they still struggle to fix the fault despite the diagnostics giving them error codes. It sometimes seem that they just keep replacing parts until they get lucky.

The best thing to do is buy a fault code reader and have a go yourself!

Cheers. Bruce.

[Harry44]

I have had the privilege to work on both old and new vehicles, fault codes only get you so far. The ECU may register the wrong resistance in the fuel pump circuit and flash up that code. However it might just be the fuse that's blown or a poor earth. Shoving on a new pump is an expensive experiment.
The problem in the motor trade as with all allied trades is the bloody politicians who wanted to put the maximum number of youngsters through university (and then charge them). This has left us short of plumbers and mechanics.
When I left the AA we had young people coming in as patrols who had never heard of points ignition systems. It was great to be called for assistance and a delight to educate them.
But I see no reason for despair in my training role at DVSA I have been working with a group of apprentices. All from non technical backgrounds. They learn all the modern technology at college but when I talk about points ignition they all say the modern engine management system starts to make more sense. Trying to understand a 3 dimensional engine map is hard but when you break it down to engine speed requiring different timing and then add the requirement for load you can slowly build a picture in your mind.
These young people are keen and eager to learn they see a trade ahead of them, we only need to convert a few of them to old vehicles and that my friends is our job.

Cheers Harry

[39speedtwin]

Interesting comments, I recently bought a 1950's MG, needing a couple of parts, I visited a local MG spares stockist and repairer about 20 miles away in the heart of the Essex countryside.
The team consisted of the owner and his wife plus an 18 year old who was being taught to repair and restore classics. He was rewiring an MGA, occasionaly asking what to do if he was unsure. So there are still those encouraging the younger generation.

[kernow kid]

And don't forget the internet! Unfortunately, as we all know, it is full of fake news and fake facts! My dad told me not to confuse information with knowledge...As a mechanical engineer all his working life he pointed out that a Haynes manual will give you information, but not the knowledge to apply it. The internet is the same. Hopefully economics will assist and those younger people who apply themselves and are interested in becoming knowledgeable about classic vehicles may find themselves able to make a good living...
kk

[Mick D]

Hi

Part of the fun in owning a vintage vehicle is being able to maintain it yourself, I think this will always be the case and therefore the knowledge will continue to be passed on as required. I wouldn't expect a garage owner to train his mechanics to maintain vehicles they rarely see.
Of more concern should be the continued availability of spares - these vehicles are being used less and less therefore the requirement for spares and the profit in supplying them is diminishing.

Regards Mick

[Groily]

One of the hurdles to overcome is the fact that classic machiness aren't unfortunately within the ££ reach of many young people, unless we give them a break on price or they are 'family' and pick up one for free. So their exposure and enthusiasm is limited and their need-to-know non-existent.

In that context, 'young' extends to 'quite old', as the price of a roof to live under ties up all their money (and often their parents' too) until they're about 120 as far as I can see. On paper they might earn what looks like 'decent', but they have no spare cash if my own lot are anything to judge by - even by the time they are literally middle-aged (like 40).

When most of us started out our machines weren't toys for the relatively old, semi-affluent and nostalgic - they were cheapish daily transport and we learnt as we went along, helped by the fact that they were only obsolete - not ancient - and frankly not very desirable! Similar technology was still commonplace, in a zillion cars with simple overhead valve engines (even a few side-valves out there), dynamos, drum brakes, basic hydraulics, no electronics etc, so any info we'd picked up from owning whatever our dads or our mates' dads had was relevant to whatever we played with.

This isn't the case any more, so it's no surprise that anyone under a certain age is going to go 'Whaaat?' Those of a certain bent could get the knowledge (and even maybe make a living from it) - but it isn't obvious quite how on any real scale as there aren't many proper apprenticeships open are there?, let alone for those wanting to specialise in a niche activity.

On the plus side, there is tons of info available thanks to the web and things like the Archives (for us) and the keenie can learn a lot quite fast if so inclined. But information without knowing how to apply it isn't much use, as KK says. I started out with books like 'The Motorcyclist's Workshop' by Torrens, 'The Penguin Car Handbook', and borrowed copies of many other such - and then gradually had a chance to put it into practice and make my own mistakes on things that a) weren't valuable and b) weren't someone else's!

To add context however, I know sweet almost-nothing about, say, steam engines, or valve radios (wish I did) - but many people of my dad's generation certainly knew their way around them. So, in the end, I rather suspect we just have to lump it, do as much as we can for ourselves, while encouraging Harry44 to do whatever he can with the willing people he gets to teach!

[SPRIDDLER]

Plus ca change.....
Here's something I posted here in March 2010.......

When I retired I started to pursue my idea of setting up completely free 'workshops' so that yoofs could come and tinker with bikes (or their ride-on leaf blowers) and perhaps learn a bit about spanners and mechanical things. It would give me some pleasure and maybe encourage youngsters into our dwindling numbers.
Maplin agreed to donate 10 soldering irons and 10 multimeters, my local MOT guy agreed to talk them through a bike MOT when he was doing one at his garage, and the guy who owns the 30' x 10' serviced but currently unoccupied flint barn opposite my house agreed to let me use it a couple of evenings a week or at weekends without charge.
The mistake I made was in approaching my local DfE Gov't Learning and Skills Council (who 'manage' the Gov't apprenticeship scheme) for their assistance with publicity, contact with potential youngsters etc. No funding required.

The Learning and Skills Council suits said that once I have had a CRB check at my cost (£50 I think), obtained 10 sets of safety goggles, gloves, a fire inspection and certificate, on-site first-aider, plus at least two fire extinguishers and an electrical installation certificate, carried out a Risk Assessment, obtained third party liability insurance and had a surveyor verify that there was no asbestos in the building.......
I decided to ride my bike instead.

[kernow kid]

As someone who at 49 is looking forward to a few more years motorcycling, one topic that hadn't been mentioned is whether we will be allowed to ride our classics!!
Will a time come when that deadly toxin petrol is closely controlled and rationed due to health and environmental reasons. .Three rides a year, pre booked and monitored??
And who would have foreseen Ernie Dorset's diesel bikes becoming 'dirty, deadly emitters of killer particles' !!
I have no problems with electric bikes and fully expect to own one in the next ten years, and whilst I'm not particularly political, i wonder if Brexit may at least enable us to make our own rules about classic vehicles.
kk

[JohnHewes]

A youngster can't get the experience of working on their car now, because the manufacturers make it impossible. I tried to help the daughters boyfriend to change the disc pads on a Renault but it needed a five sided Allen key! I didn't have one, of course, and couldn't find one on the internet either. That was a few years ago, and last weekend a neighbour asked if I had an 11mm Allen key so his son could do a similar job. Tens and twelves by the handful but I have never seen an eleven mil, one. I offered to grind a 12 down but I think he had lost interest by then and his Dad paid a garage to do this simple job.